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Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 07:58 am

Pura Vida wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:41 pm Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I agree he can help this team if deployed correctly. Really like Nado and Winn on the left side infield.

Deployed correctly? What does that mean?

Eh, as long as that ops is under .700, I’m not enthusiastic.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 21:37 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:48 pm I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

I’d like to see them move Donovan (big fan) and Burleson (indifferent) with any higher level prospects not named Wetherholt or Doyle, and get a solid starting pitcher. And also add a good starter and RH OF’er, even with a free agency overpay.

Adding two solid starters along with Gray, Liberatore, McGreevy and Quinn Mathews and Doyle on the way puts the rotation in pretty good shape.

Adding a legit (doesn’t have to be a superstar) OFer with a revamped rotation I think would get the team back to playoff contention and at least make it interesting while simultaneously rebuilding the core through draft/development.

Rather then trading Donovan (I think he is next team leader) how would you feel about signing a couple of free agent pitchers. Pitchers that you could probably get for $10 mill per year and probably wouldn't have to sign for more then 2 years? Thinking about guys like
Merrill Kelly, age 37 still a solid pitcher played this year for $7 mill
Zack Little, age 29. he maybe looking for more then 2 years, this year $5.7 mill

Not focused just on those two. My point is, if you trade Donovan, Burly and prospects for a solid starter, the salary is probably going to be $10 mill plus. So why not keep the prospects and Donovan and just pay the money. Then if need to use Donovan etc to add a corner OF, although I bet we could fill that spot from the free agent list. In fact, I'd take a wildcard shot at Luis Robert. No one is going to give him a big contract, offer him a $5 mill make good type deal. If he fails, cut him.

If there was ever a time to gamble on some bounce back types, it's 2026. We know Dewitt's not going increase the budget enough to cover Kyle Tucker or even Alonso. So find some low cost bounce back types and see what happens in 2026.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 22:58 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:48 pm I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

How do we not get a new OF back in return for Noot and Gorman? Or trade for one otherwise?

How about someone like Bryan Reynolds?

I’ve always liked Reynolds

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 23:24 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 22:16 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 22:03 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 21:51 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 21:37 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:48 pm I concede that based on his age/salary/productivity it is probably best to deal Arenado.
But....and I know I’ll get roasted for this...in my heart I’d love to see:
Trade- Nootbaar & Gorman
C- Crooks/Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Wetherholt
SS- Winn
3B- Arenado
CF- Scott
Corner OF- Donovan/Burleson/Walker
DH- Herrera
Bench- Saggese and ?

I’d like to see them move Donovan (big fan) and Burleson (indifferent) with any higher level prospects not named Wetherholt or Doyle, and get a solid starting pitcher. And also add a good starter and RH OF’er, even with a free agency overpay.

Adding two solid starters along with Gray, Liberatore, McGreevy and Quinn Mathews and Doyle on the way puts the rotation in pretty good shape.

Adding a legit (doesn’t have to be a superstar) OFer with a revamped rotation I think would get the team back to playoff contention and at least make it interesting while simultaneously rebuilding the core through draft/development.

I’d be fine with that!
I just mentioned Noot and Gorman as the two I’d prefer to trade.
But you are correct....to get any pitcher(s) of quality you’ll likely have to move better players than those two.
As you suggested....Donovan and/or Burleson.
Bloom has decisions to make for sure.

I think there could still be somewhat of a market for Noot too just because he’s a metrics darling…or whatever that’s called. A few teams would probably still like to have him as a throw in as the finishing touch on a good trade.

I don’t mind waiting a few years for the WS-level rebuild but would like to see them scratch their way in the playoffs next couple of years just for the entertainment value.

I’m fine with being patient.
I’d rather have them do it right than rush and make knee jerk moves.
As we have seen....being a .500 team usually keeps you in the WC chase into September.
And yes....the time to deal Noot is now while he has value.
The Cards have some promising pitchers who all could debut next year or ST 2027.
They are overdue in that regard. Been a long time since Flaherty and Reyes were supposedly the future.

Hoping with the right moves we could get something better than a .500 team. I’m still not over being a spoiled Cardinal fan…I want to win now, and more later lol!

Yeah....we all do! LOL
I talk of being “patient” but not sure HOW patient I really am?
I am excited for 2026:
New regime
Wetherholt
Other young guys?
Trades? FA’s?

Pura Vida wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:41 pm Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I wish only the best for everyone.
Can't help it - that is simply who I am.
But sentimentality is never a helpful substitute for a fact based, data supported plan of action.
N/A has had a fine career.
But he is a follower, not a leader.
He has a long history of placing his own interests above the good of the team.
And his best days are long behind him.
His gifted glove at 3B does not change that reality.
His presence next season would have a huge net negative impact on the team - just as it has this year.
He should have gone to Houston when STL traded him there.
He knows that.
Which is why he has recently expressed his eagerness to get out of town.
It is over for him in STL and has been for a while now.

Swuhgen wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 08:51 am

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 07:58 am

Pura Vida wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:41 pm Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I agree he can help this team if deployed correctly. Really like Nado and Winn on the left side infield.

Deployed correctly? What does that mean?

Not expected to carry the team. Leveraged for defense and down in the order hitting. More time off. Potential allocation of PT based on splits not just handinesses but pitchers pitch profiles etc.

It’s not that hard….

He saves runs/games with his glove. And in combination with Winn, STL pitchers can relax a bit more.

I understand they have to trade him and I'm not sure his shoulder will ever be right again, but I've loved him wearing the birds on the bat. Best 3B I've ever seen. Rolen was excellent, as was Brooks Robinson, Schmidt, Nettles in the postseason, but he is the most dynamic.
So (upset) that management squandered the Goldy/Arenado years.

esp31 wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 17:19 pm I understand they have to trade him and I'm not sure his shoulder will ever be right again, but I've loved him wearing the birds on the bat. Best 3B I've ever seen. Rolen was excellent, as was Brooks Robinson, Schmidt, Nettles in the postseason, but he is the most dynamic.
So (upset) that management squandered the Goldy/Arenado years.

I know I'm a little biased, but I feel like Rolen was probably better than Arenado. Not a whole lot better, but in the margins? Yeah, I think I take Rolen.

Arenado has been a great player for the Cardinals. His defense is second to none. But it is time to get younger and obtain new blood.

Strummer Jones wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 17:27 pm

esp31 wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 17:19 pm I understand they have to trade him and I'm not sure his shoulder will ever be right again, but I've loved him wearing the birds on the bat. Best 3B I've ever seen. Rolen was excellent, as was Brooks Robinson, Schmidt, Nettles in the postseason, but he is the most dynamic.
So (upset) that management squandered the Goldy/Arenado years.

I know I'm a little biased, but I feel like Rolen was probably better than Arenado. Not a whole lot better, but in the margins? Yeah, I think I take Rolen.

They're probably 2A and 2B behind Beltre in the last 35 years.

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 07:58 am

Pura Vida wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:41 pm Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I agree he can help this team if deployed correctly. Really like Nado and Winn on the left side infield.

Nado's glove alone would benefit the Cards next year. He might have a bounce back at the plate if his injury was impacting him longer than we heard this year.

Melville wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 09:47 am

Pura Vida wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:41 pm Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I wish only the best for everyone.
Can't help it - that is simply who I am.
But sentimentality is never a helpful substitute for a fact based, data supported plan of action.
N/A has had a fine career.
But he is a follower, not a leader.
He has a long history of placing his own interests above the good of the team.
And his best days are long behind him.
His gifted glove at 3B does not change that reality.
His presence next season would have a huge net negative impact on the team - just as it has this year.
He should have gone to Houston when STL traded him there.
He knows that.
Which is why he has recently expressed his eagerness to get out of town.
It is over for him in STL and has been for a while now.

Maybe he had a vision that Cleveland would grab
the last WC spot.
Then he'd be looking for yet another better team.

renostl wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 23:58 pm

Melville wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 09:47 am

Pura Vida wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:41 pm Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I wish only the best for everyone.
Can't help it - that is simply who I am.
But sentimentality is never a helpful substitute for a fact based, data supported plan of action.
N/A has had a fine career.
But he is a follower, not a leader.
He has a long history of placing his own interests above the good of the team.
And his best days are long behind him.
His gifted glove at 3B does not change that reality.
His presence next season would have a huge net negative impact on the team - just as it has this year.
He should have gone to Houston when STL traded him there.
He knows that.
Which is why he has recently expressed his eagerness to get out of town.
It is over for him in STL and has been for a while now.

Maybe he had a vision that Cleveland would grab
the last WC spot.
Then he'd be looking for yet another better team.

Does he REALLY want to play for a better team?
Does he REALLY want an opportunity to compete in the playoffs?
Or does he simply want to get paid to make a bare handed play every now and then in front of local adoring fans - without being burdened with the expectations that come by being in the lineup of a high profile team which is nationally viewed as a legitimate threat to win a WS?
Currently, indications suggest the latter.
We shall see.

Melville wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:28 am

renostl wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 23:58 pm

Melville wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 09:47 am

Pura Vida wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 20:41 pm Despite not having superstar offensive output, having Arenado back at 3rd is a huge positive. He is top 3 all-time defensively @ 3rd! Hope he is a Cardinal next year!

I wish only the best for everyone.
Can't help it - that is simply who I am.
But sentimentality is never a helpful substitute for a fact based, data supported plan of action.
N/A has had a fine career.
But he is a follower, not a leader.
He has a long history of placing his own interests above the good of the team.
And his best days are long behind him.
His gifted glove at 3B does not change that reality.
His presence next season would have a huge net negative impact on the team - just as it has this year.
He should have gone to Houston when STL traded him there.
He knows that.
Which is why he has recently expressed his eagerness to get out of town.
It is over for him in STL and has been for a while now.

Maybe he had a vision that Cleveland would grab
the last WC spot.
Then he'd be looking for yet another better team.

Does he REALLY want to play for a better team?
Does he REALLY want an opportunity to compete in the playoffs?
Or does he simply want to get paid to make a bare handed play every now and then in front of local adoring fans - without being burdened with the expectations that come by being in the lineup of a high profile team which is nationally viewed as a legitimate threat to win a WS?
Currently, indications suggest the latter.
We shall see.

There is also the possibility that he lives in STL and has kid(s). Maybe his family likes it there. Maybe they want to move back to CA as the other choice. Sometimes we forget these guys are humans with families too. I don't know any details, but neither do any of the rest of us. It is not all about baseball all the time. Life is a compromise between work and family needs.