Lance Lynn is in Love

[blackinkbiz]

We will never know who truly deserves more blame for this catastrophe, the FO or Mo.

What we do know is, through his first 10-12 years, Mo did a pretty good job. Not many organizations could absorb the loss of a generational player like Pujols and field a team that won more games its next 4 years than it did in its previous.

But after Aroz, Gallen, Alcantra, and Adolis, Mo was never the same. Gunshy, risk-averse, or just straight up pathetic, whatever you want to call it, he made one bad move (or lack of moves) after another.

And when Lynn puts down the donuts and hops on a treadmill for a few months, then he can talk. As of now, his view is biased as he milked 8 figures from the Cardinals because of Mo.

[rockondlouie]

I kinda see what he's saying. It's not Mo, it's Dewitt or at least that's what I get from lynn's remarks.

Can't tell you have many threads I've started over the last four-five years stating:

"BILL DEWITT, Jr is the real problem"!

Mo has made many blunders for sure, wasting the payroll Dewitt gave him on too many bad players.

BUT

Dewitt has final approval on all these moves Mo brings to him, thus HE's the real problem!

Plus he could've fired Mo years ago and didn't, again making Dewitt the real problem!

[Ozziesfan41]

When ownership was giving mo money he was wasting it on dumb extensions like for M carpenter and mikolas and signing mediocre players like Fowler and leake. And the dumbest extension was oli. I would disagree with but get if he signed him to an extension and said I think he’s a great manager I want to keep him. But he extended him because he didn’t want him to feel any pressure to win or be good at his job and that’s the dumbest reason ever to extend a manager

[45s]

When ownership was giving mo money he was wasting it on dumb extensions like for M carpenter and mikolas and signing mediocre players like Fowler and leake. And the dumbest extension was oli. I would disagree with but get if he signed him to an extension and said I think he’s a great manager I want to keep him. But he extended him because he didn’t want him to feel any pressure to win or be good at his job and that’s the dumbest reason ever to extend a manager

Don’t forget the foolish retentions of wainwright and molina

[ecleme22]

To use a phrase…

“Don’t bite the hand that could potentially feed you in the future.”

There’s absolutely zero to gain for LL if he criticizes Mo now…

[82birds]

Lance defends the guy who paid him $11m to be fat after horrid years. Shocking. Lance also fails to address the bad trades, signings, and stupid statements, and fixates on not being provided enough money.

Was that MLBPA President Tony Clark’s hand I saw moving LL’s lips? Great vantriloquism!

[greyhawk]

He’s not wrong. Mo has made his share of bad moves but every GM/POBO does. For every Ozuna trade, there’s an Arenado or Goldy trade. And up until 2023, his teams have been consistently competitive. My main criticism of Mo has been unwillingness to part with prospects at the deadline in years where we are competitive, but it would not surprise me if ownership had a say in that too. At the end of the day, Mo is an employee and like any other employee works at the direction of his boss. I really doubt Mo was on board with gutting the minor league development system to maintain resources for the big league club, but that’s the choice his boss gave him.

Ownership has provided just enough resources for this team to be competitive but has been unwilling to go all in and disrupt the profit stream with a higher payroll. Now they’re eating the meal they cooked with poor attendance and low fan interest. Most of the issues we blame Mo for won’t go away once he leaves.

So in your mind, Mo has been begging BDW to update the farm system, but his boss refused? I doubt that very much. It seems more likely that Mo has assumed Memphis was just fine because it's always fine and ignored any flashing signs. I bet he found out that he had 15 fewer developmental coaches than the Brewers the same way you and I did: from Katie Woo.

While we're talking about the Brewers, they have a lower payroll than the Cardinals and they're the best team in baseball. That didn't happen overnight, of course, but it happened. It could have happened here. It could have started years ago. Instead we had a POBO whose only goal year in and year out was finishing above .500 and maybe scrapping for a WC spot.

Honestly, I don't blame BDW one bit for not wanting to hand Mo a bigger payroll, just so he can blow it on extensions for MM and over-the-hill players like Lynn and a boatload of catchers who can't catch. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why BDW didn't just fire him last year and let Bloom start rebuilding in winter 2024.

Didn't MO still have a year on his contract? Kind of like the marmot does for next season --- one thing we all should know by now is that contracts play under DeWitt.

Matheny and Schildt might disagree. So might Walt Jocketty.

I sure hope you are right

[greyhawk]

I kinda see what he's saying. It's not Mo, it's Dewitt or at least that's what I get from lynn's remarks.

Can't tell you have many threads I've started over the last four-five years stating:

"BILL DEWITT, Jr is the real problem"!

Mo has made many blunders for sure, wasting the payroll Dewitt gave him on too many bad players.

BUT

Dewitt has final approval on all these moves Mo brings to him, thus HE's the real problem!

Plus he could've fired Mo years ago and didn't, again making Dewitt the real problem!

Birds of a feather --- DeWitt picked Mo over Luhnow and has stayed with him much like Mo picks his favorite players and sticks with them. Blow it all up --- which i realize is especially difficult since one of them is the current owner.....

[Dicktar2023]

We will never know who truly deserves more blame for this catastrophe, the FO or Mo.

What we do know is, through his first 10-12 years, Mo did a pretty good job. Not many organizations could absorb the loss of a generational player like Pujols and field a team that won more games its next 4 years than it did in its previous.

But after Aroz, Gallen, Alcantra, and Adolis, Mo was never the same. Gunshy, risk-averse, or just straight up pathetic, whatever you want to call it, he made one bad move (or lack of moves) after another.

And when Lynn puts down the donuts and hops on a treadmill for a few months, then he can talk. As of now, his view is biased as he milked 8 figures from the Cardinals because of Mo.

Mo inherited a solid system from Jocketty and Luhnow and then played the fiddle while it burned to the ground.

There was a lot of bad luck along the way, but there was even more incompetence, terrible contracts, and (bleep)-poor assessment of talent. That's going to be his legacy.

[rockondlouie]

I kinda see what he's saying. It's not Mo, it's Dewitt or at least that's what I get from lynn's remarks.

Can't tell you have many threads I've started over the last four-five years stating:

"BILL DEWITT, Jr is the real problem"!

Mo has made many blunders for sure, wasting the payroll Dewitt gave him on too many bad players.

BUT

Dewitt has final approval on all these moves Mo brings to him, thus HE's the real problem!

Plus he could've fired Mo years ago and didn't, again making Dewitt the real problem!

Birds of a feather --- DeWitt picked Mo over Luhnow and has stayed with him much like Mo picks his favorite players and sticks with them. Blow it all up --- which i realize is especially difficult since one of them is the current owner.....

For sure

BDWJr/Mo are discussing every move w/Bill having final approval (as he should as owner).

And the "blow up" is coming soon w/the new POBO, empty stadium final got through to Dewitt!

[JuanAgosto]

Plenty of blame to spread around. DeWitt for keeping Mo and tightening the wallet. Mo for being an arrogant putz who let the roster and farm system crumble. And oli for doing stupid (bleep). Then you have some players who its told aren't the most coachable group and dont take details seriously.

[Rojo Johnson]

When ownership was giving mo money he was wasting it on dumb extensions like for M carpenter and mikolas and signing mediocre players like Fowler and leake. And the dumbest extension was oli. I would disagree with but get if he signed him to an extension and said I think he’s a great manager I want to keep him. But he extended him because he didn’t want him to feel any pressure to win or be good at his job and that’s the dumbest reason ever to extend a manager

There is more than enough blame to go around. But, Moe is supposed to be the “baseball expert”. That’s what he’s been paid for and he is awful at a number of things he should have been accountable for. There’s no need to go over it all again. Ozzie nailed it above. The article was very poorly written and didn’t even attempt to back up what Lynn said. That’s probably because it was indefensible. Moe inherited much and squandered more. He’s a loser who was too dumb to understand how his stupidity ruined the development of the players in the system. I have a bottle of Frank Sinatra Jack Daniel’s and I will borrow heavily from it in less than two weeks. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Dicktar2023]

He’s not wrong. Mo has made his share of bad moves but every GM/POBO does. For every Ozuna trade, there’s an Arenado or Goldy trade. And up until 2023, his teams have been consistently competitive. My main criticism of Mo has been unwillingness to part with prospects at the deadline in years where we are competitive, but it would not surprise me if ownership had a say in that too. At the end of the day, Mo is an employee and like any other employee works at the direction of his boss. I really doubt Mo was on board with gutting the minor league development system to maintain resources for the big league club, but that’s the choice his boss gave him.

Ownership has provided just enough resources for this team to be competitive but has been unwilling to go all in and disrupt the profit stream with a higher payroll. Now they’re eating the meal they cooked with poor attendance and low fan interest. Most of the issues we blame Mo for won’t go away once he leaves.

So in your mind, Mo has been begging BDW to update the farm system, but his boss refused? I doubt that very much. It seems more likely that Mo has assumed Memphis was just fine because it's always fine and ignored any flashing signs. I bet he found out that he had 15 fewer developmental coaches than the Brewers the same way you and I did: from Katie Woo.

While we're talking about the Brewers, they have a lower payroll than the Cardinals and they're the best team in baseball. That didn't happen overnight, of course, but it happened. It could have happened here. It could have started years ago. Instead we had a POBO whose only goal year in and year out was finishing above .500 and maybe scrapping for a WC spot.

Honestly, I don't blame BDW one bit for not wanting to hand Mo a bigger payroll, just so he can blow it on extensions for MM and over-the-hill players like Lynn and a boatload of catchers who can't catch. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why BDW didn't just fire him last year and let Bloom start rebuilding in winter 2024.

Didn't MO still have a year on his contract? Kind of like the marmot does for next season --- one thing we all should know by now is that contracts play under DeWitt.

Matheny and Schildt might disagree. So might Walt Jocketty.

I sure hope you are right

For my own peace of mind, I have to believe Bloom is going to do everything he can to put the Mo era behind us--which starts with Marmol. Given all the empty seats and the national conversation about how messed up this team is, BDW should be dying to let Bloom do his thing.

But if that doesn't happen...I don't know, man...

[cardstatman]

If you want to blame DeWitt, it would be for 2025 only. Payroll didn't drop much until then.

Luxury Tax Payroll / Luxury Tax Limit / Revenue / TV / Year
$187M / $206M / $383M / $52.0M / 2019
$182M / $208M / $109M / $54.1M / 2020 COVID #1 (paid only 37% of payroll or $67M)
$180M / $210M / $287M / $56.2M / 2021 COVID #2
$178M / $230M / $358M / $58.5M / 2022
$201M / $233M / $372M / $60.8M / 2023
$217M / $237M / $373M / $63.3M / 2024
$161M / $241M / $????M / $50.7M / 2025 23% reduction in TV deal

I think the blame is mostly on Mozeliak and COVID and the demise of the Fox Sports deal.

The first round of payroll cuts was because the Cards were hurt by COVID more than other teams were hurt.

The second round of payroll cuts was because: the TV deal dropped 23%, the team diverted money to invest in the Roger Dean complex and technology, and the team was not looking competitive in 2023-2024 so a decision to "reset" was made.

Their PR messaging on the reset was abismal and the Cardinal fans reacted by staying away and not watching which is going to trigger more major revenue declines.

Mozeliak's blame IMHO is mostly for falling in love with his players and foolishly spending the payroll dollars he had to spend. This contributed to stopping the franchise's momentum.

Let's be real, though, this is going to be only his 2nd losing season out of 18 seasons. Overall Mozeliak did a fine job before falling asleep for the final several years. His should have quit before his last extension; I don't know why he stuck around if he was no longer motivated.

He inherited a 78-84 team which scored 104 runs less than it allowed in 2007. That team was slightly worse that the 2025 team he is leaving behind. Also, he did not long enjoy the luxury of a boost like drafting Pujols and Molina which benefited the Jocketty years greatly as well as the first several years of the Mozeliak era. Interestingly, both were drafted when Mozeliak was briefly in charge of the draft.

[Ordinary Man]

If you want to blame DeWitt, it would be for 2025 only. Payroll didn't drop much until then.

Luxury Tax Payroll / Luxury Tax Limit / Revenue / TV / Year
$187M / $206M / $383M / $52.0M / 2019
$182M / $208M / $109M / $54.1M / 2020 COVID #1 (paid only 37% of payroll or $67M)
$180M / $210M / $287M / $56.2M / 2021 COVID #2
$178M / $230M / $358M / $58.5M / 2022
$201M / $233M / $372M / $60.8M / 2023
$217M / $237M / $373M / $63.3M / 2024
$161M / $241M / $????M / $50.7M / 2025 23% reduction in TV deal

I think the blame is mostly on Mozeliak and COVID and the demise of the Fox Sports deal.

The first round of payroll cuts was because the Cards were hurt by COVID more than other teams were hurt.

The second round of payroll cuts was because: the TV deal dropped 23%, the team diverted money to invest in the Roger Dean complex and technology, and the team was not looking competitive in 2023-2024 so a decision to "reset" was made.

Their PR messaging on the reset was abismal and the Cardinal fans reacted by staying away and not watching which is going to trigger more major revenue declines.

Mozeliak's blame IMHO is mostly for falling in love with his players and foolishly spending the payroll dollars he had to spend. This contributed to stopping the franchise's momentum.

Let's be real, though, this is going to be only his 2nd losing season out of 18 seasons. Overall Mozeliak did a fine job before falling asleep for the final several years. His should have quit before his last extension; I don't know why he stuck around if he was no longer motivated.

He inherited a 78-84 team which scored 104 runs less than it allowed in 2007. That team was slightly worse that the 2025 team he is leaving behind. Also, he did not long enjoy the luxury of a boost like drafting Pujols and Molina which benefited the Jocketty years greatly as well as the first several years of the Mozeliak era. Interestingly, both were drafted when Mozeliak was briefly in charge of the draft.

He gets too much credit for the drafting of Pujols. We took him in the 13th round so he (and everyone else) passed on him a dozen times. They evidently didn't have an inkling of what he could do.

[Carp4Cy]

I kinda see what he's saying. It's not Mo, it's Dewitt or at least that's what I get from lynn's remarks.

Then Mo should have had some pride and resigned citing inadequate resources to do his job.