Page 2 of 2
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 16:47 pm
by ICCFIM2
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:28 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:22 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:16 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:06 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:49 pm
blackinkbiz wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:27 pm
I read somewhere just recently that analysts have, well, analyzed, that the average fastball speed in the Babe Ruth era was around 86mph.
If that's the case, that alone pretty much answers the question, velocity. And that's to say nothing in regards to movement and replay so that guys can go back and see exactly what their grip was when they had a good feel on a pitch.
Both Ruth and Gehrig used 40oz+bats……today they swing Highly engineered 32oz bats…..please factor into the “pitcher just throws too hard today for hitter to compete” equation…..
The hitting tech and strike zone shrinkage NEVER comes up in the conversation about how disadvantaged today’s poor hitter is.
Much heavier bats….NOT engineered for perfect balance
No helmets until the 50’s
No body armor
With the mound up until 1969 being 5 in higher than it is today
But those old timers had it so easy hitting the slightly slower pitches……
Someone take a look at Ty Cobb, Rob Carew, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds even and compare the swings to the grip and rip heroes Nolan Gorman…..WC…..Jordan Walker…..TO……or whoever is out there striking out over 150x a year……no great mystery after watching those comparisons
Cobb and the like were not facing 100mph fastballs and mid-90s sliders. It isn’t the coaching, or your favorite scapegoat “analytics” that is causing a decline in offense.
Forget analytics……if you think Cobb, Rose, Gwynn, and again even Bonds have the same undisciplined swings a Gorman, TO, and all the 150K hackers then you have vision issues. And analytics has brought into the game that slugging every swing is a greater reward than looking for the single so that’s how their swings are programmed and taught now. Barry Bonds used to choke up on the bat…..ever see that now??
Do you think that has anything to do with the pitching they face?
How do you think Rose, Gwynn, Carew, Boggs, Bonds would perform today?
I had this argument with my kid a few weeks ago who told me that if Babe Ruth played today, he would be a 250/325/425 hitter with 20-25 HRs. I disagreed. But, I also don't think his statistics would be what they were. I would guess he would be a 285/375/475 hitter with 35-40 HRs. That still makes him a very elite player. It also is a long way from the statistics that he put up in his career. It makes him Barry Bonds before Bonds starting using steroids...
There are still 8-10 hitters that hit 300 in MLB and the superstars of the past would look and perform similar to those guys. We had plenty of undisciplined guys in the past as well. They all had short ML careers and no one remembers them. Similar to all the pitchers that got hurt in the past, no one remembers them. We only remember the ones that didn't get hurt...
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 16:56 pm
by Goldfan
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:47 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:28 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:22 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:16 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:06 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:49 pm
blackinkbiz wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:27 pm
I read somewhere just recently that analysts have, well, analyzed, that the average fastball speed in the Babe Ruth era was around 86mph.
If that's the case, that alone pretty much answers the question, velocity. And that's to say nothing in regards to movement and replay so that guys can go back and see exactly what their grip was when they had a good feel on a pitch.
Both Ruth and Gehrig used 40oz+bats……today they swing Highly engineered 32oz bats…..please factor into the “pitcher just throws too hard today for hitter to compete” equation…..
The hitting tech and strike zone shrinkage NEVER comes up in the conversation about how disadvantaged today’s poor hitter is.
Much heavier bats….NOT engineered for perfect balance
No helmets until the 50’s
No body armor
With the mound up until 1969 being 5 in higher than it is today
But those old timers had it so easy hitting the slightly slower pitches……
Someone take a look at Ty Cobb, Rob Carew, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds even and compare the swings to the grip and rip heroes Nolan Gorman…..WC…..Jordan Walker…..TO……or whoever is out there striking out over 150x a year……no great mystery after watching those comparisons
Cobb and the like were not facing 100mph fastballs and mid-90s sliders. It isn’t the coaching, or your favorite scapegoat “analytics” that is causing a decline in offense.
Forget analytics……if you think Cobb, Rose, Gwynn, and again even Bonds have the same undisciplined swings a Gorman, TO, and all the 150K hackers then you have vision issues. And analytics has brought into the game that slugging every swing is a greater reward than looking for the single so that’s how their swings are programmed and taught now. Barry Bonds used to choke up on the bat…..ever see that now??
Do you think that has anything to do with the pitching they face?
How do you think Rose, Gwynn, Carew, Boggs, Bonds would perform today?
I had this argument with my kid a few weeks ago who told me that if Babe Ruth played today, he would be a 250/325/425 hitter with 20-25 HRs. I disagreed. But, I also don't think his statistics would be what they were. I would guess he would be a 285/375/475 hitter with 35-40 HRs. That still makes him a very elite player. It also is a long way from the statistics that he put up in his career. It makes him Barry Bonds before Bonds starting using steroids...
There are still 8-10 hitters that hit 300 in MLB and the superstars of the past would look and perform similar to those guys. We had plenty of undisciplined guys in the past as well. They all had short ML careers and no one remembers them. Similar to all the pitchers that got hurt in the past, no one remembers them. We only remember the ones that didn't get hurt...
Ruth and Gehrig were standing up there without a helmet, in a time where heading hunting was common…..
Give those elites a helmet, all the armor, and knowledge they probably won’t get thrown at anyway with perfectly balanced highly engineered wood of today……..
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 17:09 pm
by scoutyjones2
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:24 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:10 pm
Again, didn't verify this. But somewhere I read heard around 10 years there were 4-5 ML pitchers that could throw around 100 MPH. Now every ML team has at least one. One thing I did look up is the average ML fastball is now slightly over 94 mph. Just 15 years ago it was slightly under 92 MPH. That extra velocity is making a huge difference. I don't really think there is a solution. Moving the mound back, even a foot is likely to result in a spike in pitching injuries. The game is just different.
Hmmm…..1968……lower the mound??? But again….hitter aren’t attempting to get “hits”…almost All take same approach regardless of count or situation
And swing for the moon…pretty simple
Proven to score more runs hitting HR's than not...very simple.
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 17:11 pm
by scoutyjones2
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:56 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:47 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:28 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:22 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:16 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:06 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:49 pm
blackinkbiz wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:27 pm
I read somewhere just recently that analysts have, well, analyzed, that the average fastball speed in the Babe Ruth era was around 86mph.
If that's the case, that alone pretty much answers the question, velocity. And that's to say nothing in regards to movement and replay so that guys can go back and see exactly what their grip was when they had a good feel on a pitch.
Both Ruth and Gehrig used 40oz+bats……today they swing Highly engineered 32oz bats…..please factor into the “pitcher just throws too hard today for hitter to compete” equation…..
The hitting tech and strike zone shrinkage NEVER comes up in the conversation about how disadvantaged today’s poor hitter is.
Much heavier bats….NOT engineered for perfect balance
No helmets until the 50’s
No body armor
With the mound up until 1969 being 5 in higher than it is today
But those old timers had it so easy hitting the slightly slower pitches……
Someone take a look at Ty Cobb, Rob Carew, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds even and compare the swings to the grip and rip heroes Nolan Gorman…..WC…..Jordan Walker…..TO……or whoever is out there striking out over 150x a year……no great mystery after watching those comparisons
Cobb and the like were not facing 100mph fastballs and mid-90s sliders. It isn’t the coaching, or your favorite scapegoat “analytics” that is causing a decline in offense.
Forget analytics……if you think Cobb, Rose, Gwynn, and again even Bonds have the same undisciplined swings a Gorman, TO, and all the 150K hackers then you have vision issues. And analytics has brought into the game that slugging every swing is a greater reward than looking for the single so that’s how their swings are programmed and taught now. Barry Bonds used to choke up on the bat…..ever see that now??
Do you think that has anything to do with the pitching they face?
How do you think Rose, Gwynn, Carew, Boggs, Bonds would perform today?
I had this argument with my kid a few weeks ago who told me that if Babe Ruth played today, he would be a 250/325/425 hitter with 20-25 HRs. I disagreed. But, I also don't think his statistics would be what they were. I would guess he would be a 285/375/475 hitter with 35-40 HRs. That still makes him a very elite player. It also is a long way from the statistics that he put up in his career. It makes him Barry Bonds before Bonds starting using steroids...
There are still 8-10 hitters that hit 300 in MLB and the superstars of the past would look and perform similar to those guys. We had plenty of undisciplined guys in the past as well. They all had short ML careers and no one remembers them. Similar to all the pitchers that got hurt in the past, no one remembers them. We only remember the ones that didn't get hurt...
Ruth and Gehrig were standing up there without a helmet, in a time where heading hunting was common…..
Give those elites a helmet, all the armor, and knowledge they probably won’t get thrown at anyway with perfectly balanced highly engineered wood of today……..
the old, "I walked up hill to school, both ways. In blinding snow and rain, without shoes" horse [shirt].
Time periods really can't be compared. Sorry
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 17:14 pm
by kscardsfan
Launch angle and emphasis on the HR among the others mentioned. Not just one thing.
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 17:16 pm
by dugoutrex
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:10 pm
Again, didn't verify this. But somewhere I read heard around 10 years there were 4-5 ML pitchers that could throw around 100 MPH. Now every ML team has at least one. One thing I did look up is the average ML fastball is now slightly over 94 mph. Just 15 years ago it was slightly under 92 MPH. That extra velocity is making a huge difference. I don't really think there is a solution. Moving the mound back, even a foot is likely to result in a spike in pitching injuries. The game is just different.
someone was on here just yesterday talking about how much better the pitching was 25 years ago - I told them they were nutz!
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 17:26 pm
by mattmitchl44
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:47 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:28 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:22 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:16 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:06 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:49 pm
blackinkbiz wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:27 pm
I read somewhere just recently that analysts have, well, analyzed, that the average fastball speed in the Babe Ruth era was around 86mph.
If that's the case, that alone pretty much answers the question, velocity. And that's to say nothing in regards to movement and replay so that guys can go back and see exactly what their grip was when they had a good feel on a pitch.
Both Ruth and Gehrig used 40oz+bats……today they swing Highly engineered 32oz bats…..please factor into the “pitcher just throws too hard today for hitter to compete” equation…..
The hitting tech and strike zone shrinkage NEVER comes up in the conversation about how disadvantaged today’s poor hitter is.
Much heavier bats….NOT engineered for perfect balance
No helmets until the 50’s
No body armor
With the mound up until 1969 being 5 in higher than it is today
But those old timers had it so easy hitting the slightly slower pitches……
Someone take a look at Ty Cobb, Rob Carew, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds even and compare the swings to the grip and rip heroes Nolan Gorman…..WC…..Jordan Walker…..TO……or whoever is out there striking out over 150x a year……no great mystery after watching those comparisons
Cobb and the like were not facing 100mph fastballs and mid-90s sliders. It isn’t the coaching, or your favorite scapegoat “analytics” that is causing a decline in offense.
Forget analytics……if you think Cobb, Rose, Gwynn, and again even Bonds have the same undisciplined swings a Gorman, TO, and all the 150K hackers then you have vision issues. And analytics has brought into the game that slugging every swing is a greater reward than looking for the single so that’s how their swings are programmed and taught now. Barry Bonds used to choke up on the bat…..ever see that now??
Do you think that has anything to do with the pitching they face?
How do you think Rose, Gwynn, Carew, Boggs, Bonds would perform today?
I had this argument with my kid a few weeks ago who told me that if Babe Ruth played today, he would be a 250/325/425 hitter with 20-25 HRs. I disagreed. But, I also don't think his statistics would be what they were. I would guess he would be a 285/375/475 hitter with 35-40 HRs.
Not unless he adopted modern approaches to training, nutrition, etc.
Re: What Happened To Baseball's 300 Hitter?
Posted: 19 Sep 2025 18:06 pm
by Goldfan
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 17:26 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:47 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:28 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:22 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:16 pm
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 16:06 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:49 pm
blackinkbiz wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 15:27 pm
I read somewhere just recently that analysts have, well, analyzed, that the average fastball speed in the Babe Ruth era was around 86mph.
If that's the case, that alone pretty much answers the question, velocity. And that's to say nothing in regards to movement and replay so that guys can go back and see exactly what their grip was when they had a good feel on a pitch.
Both Ruth and Gehrig used 40oz+bats……today they swing Highly engineered 32oz bats…..please factor into the “pitcher just throws too hard today for hitter to compete” equation…..
The hitting tech and strike zone shrinkage NEVER comes up in the conversation about how disadvantaged today’s poor hitter is.
Much heavier bats….NOT engineered for perfect balance
No helmets until the 50’s
No body armor
With the mound up until 1969 being 5 in higher than it is today
But those old timers had it so easy hitting the slightly slower pitches……
Someone take a look at Ty Cobb, Rob Carew, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds even and compare the swings to the grip and rip heroes Nolan Gorman…..WC…..Jordan Walker…..TO……or whoever is out there striking out over 150x a year……no great mystery after watching those comparisons
Cobb and the like were not facing 100mph fastballs and mid-90s sliders. It isn’t the coaching, or your favorite scapegoat “analytics” that is causing a decline in offense.
Forget analytics……if you think Cobb, Rose, Gwynn, and again even Bonds have the same undisciplined swings a Gorman, TO, and all the 150K hackers then you have vision issues. And analytics has brought into the game that slugging every swing is a greater reward than looking for the single so that’s how their swings are programmed and taught now. Barry Bonds used to choke up on the bat…..ever see that now??
Do you think that has anything to do with the pitching they face?
How do you think Rose, Gwynn, Carew, Boggs, Bonds would perform today?
I had this argument with my kid a few weeks ago who told me that if Babe Ruth played today, he would be a 250/325/425 hitter with 20-25 HRs. I disagreed. But, I also don't think his statistics would be what they were. I would guess he would be a 285/375/475 hitter with 35-40 HRs.
Not unless he adopted modern approaches to training, nutrition, etc.
Ruth hit more HR(60) than all other AL teams…..his comparison performance outlier can not be overlooked.