STLtoday.com

hullie wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:06 am You can tell when Gorman started playing third

45s wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:03 am Amusing…

Some just cannot….absolutely cannot….bring themselves to blame the krappy players that litter the roster…

This is simply not true. This forum is littered with posts filled with genuine hatred for the likes of guys like Mikolas(probably the headliner) Pallante, Gorman, Walker, Fedde(when he was here), Arenado, pretty much anyone in the bullpen. Just to name a few

Avoiding all of that to make your statement seem true is something that immature little girls do

Be better

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:08 am The players clearly bear the brunt of the responsibility.
But...you can’t ignore that there are issues with decision making and that team fundamentals are below average.
I consider Marmol below average. Worth looking at along with players.

I think that is a thoughtful observation..

This organization is dysfunctional…..from top to bottom…..it’s going to take a lot more effort than firing a marginal field manager

Banner29 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:12 am

45s wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:03 am Amusing…

Some just cannot….absolutely cannot….bring themselves to blame the krappy players that litter the roster…

This is simply not true. This forum is littered with posts filled with genuine hatred for the likes of guys like Mikolas(probably the headliner) Pallante, Gorman, Walker, Fedde(when he was here), Arenado, pretty much anyone in the bullpen. Just to name a few

Avoiding all of that to make your statement seem true is something that immature little girls do

Be better

Personal attacks….how very mature of you…

and bashing me does not make these krappy players any better…

But….if it gives you some personal validation….please, carry on…

45s wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:16 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:12 am

45s wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:03 am Amusing…

Some just cannot….absolutely cannot….bring themselves to blame the krappy players that litter the roster…

This is simply not true. This forum is littered with posts filled with genuine hatred for the likes of guys like Mikolas(probably the headliner) Pallante, Gorman, Walker, Fedde(when he was here), Arenado, pretty much anyone in the bullpen. Just to name a few

Avoiding all of that to make your statement seem true is something that immature little girls do

Be better

Personal attacks….how very mature of you…

and bashing me does not make these krappy players any better…

But….if it gives you some personal validation….please, carry on…

I notice how you avoided the primary point at hand and instead tried diverting and making it all about you….


Also something immature little girls do

45s wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:14 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:08 am The players clearly bear the brunt of the responsibility.
But...you can’t ignore that there are issues with decision making and that team fundamentals are below average.
I consider Marmol below average. Worth looking at along with players.

I think that is a thoughtful observation..

This organization is dysfunctional…..from top to bottom…..it’s going to take a lot more effort than firing a marginal field manager

The team clearly has holes to address in player talent this off season.
My questions are with fundamentals?
And I admit that without being “inside” the organization, it’s difficult to assign blame for these issues.
How much is poor coaching and leadership??

I'm no Marmol defender but there are no "meaningless" games. They all count the same.

Melville wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 08:36 am July 1
STL 47-40
SD 45-39
SF 45-41
CIN 44-42
AZ 43-42

Sept 16
SD 82-69
AZ 77-75
CIN 75-76
SF 75-76
STL 74-78

Last 10 weeks:
STL -11
SD +7
SF-5
CIN -1
AZ +1

Marmol is the master at winning meaningless games - and is a complete disaster at winning games when it matters. Even when he has a huge initial advantage and the competition is doing their very best to make it easy for him. There are many, many reasons to fire The Marmot - but none more obvious than the numbers above. He is a lightweight not up to the job when it matters.

He’s not been conditioned to work under pressure. It was purposefully avoided during his own professional development. Not surprised the numbers indicate a drop.

The team did sell off some good bullpen guys though, and that would’ve made up for some of those 2nd half losses.

bretto12 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 09:27 am what was Marmol's batting average and pitching ERA over that bad section. Oh, sorry, I forgot he was not on the field and that it was the players who failed to perform. This has been beat to death. Managers with good players win, managers with bad players lose.

If you want to make an argument that managers don't make a difference, then do so. Prepared to get laughed off this and any other forum you choose.
Get a better argument, bretto.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:03 am

Melville wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 08:36 am July 1
STL 47-40
SD 45-39
SF 45-41
CIN 44-42
AZ 43-42

Sept 16
SD 82-69
AZ 77-75
CIN 75-76
SF 75-76
STL 74-78

Last 10 weeks:
STL -11
SD +7
SF-5
CIN -1
AZ +1

Marmol is the master at winning meaningless games - and is a complete disaster at winning games when it matters. Even when he has a huge initial advantage and the competition is doing their very best to make it easy for him. There are many, many reasons to fire The Marmot - but none more obvious than the numbers above. He is a lightweight not up to the job when it matters.

Not your best effort.

Agree.
Marmol is whatever each of us see him as.
Separating data of any manager in any single season and then suggesting that there is
some valid point in it seems a foolish POV.
Maybe Oli had them overachieving until July 1, an equally foolish take but more plausible
since most here called .500 a high-water mark before the season in your poll.

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 13:00 pm

bretto12 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 09:27 am what was Marmol's batting average and pitching ERA over that bad section. Oh, sorry, I forgot he was not on the field and that it was the players who failed to perform. This has been beat to death. Managers with good players win, managers with bad players lose.

If you want to make an argument that managers don't make a difference, then do so. Prepared to get laughed off this and any other forum you choose.
Get a better argument, bretto.

I think that the great managers are proactive and less reactive. Herzog got all over Ozzie about hitting too many balls in the air. He devised a bet that Ozzie owed him for every fly ball, and he owed Ozzie for every ground ball. Ozzie went from a poor hitter to attaining 2,500 or so hits in his career. I don't have specific examples about LaRussa or others but why not tell the team to be ready to hit on pitch one and not just stand there like a statue because the ball down the middle of the plate didn't appeal to you? When we had our 17-game streak under Shildt they clearly abandoned falling behind in the count and being aggressive within the strike zone early in the count. They were hitting to all fields and despite that their home run totals went way up. Why can't a manager figure out what to do and then require that it be done? Jordan stands there with two strikes that he didn't attempt to hit and then evidently is guessing breaking ball and takes strike three down the middle. Why not privately get in his face and tell him that if he doesn't want to hit that there are others that would like his job? Preach swinging at strikes and not swinging at balls. Teddy Simmons told me decades ago that if you are guessing fastball and get a curve that you can adjust but if you are guessing curveball and get a fastball you have no chance. He said the only time you guess curveball is if that's the pitcher's pattern or if he can't get his fastball over then wait for the curveball. Ollie doesn't know how to hit. He never was a major league player, but he should know about sound at bat strategy and be somewhat demanding that the players follow his directives. I believe that's what Shildt did and then wanted the hitting coach fired and he got fired instead, but having a philosophy of how to play ball and demanding that players at least try to comply is what a good leader would do. It's not always about mechanics. Being passive early in the count and allowing the pitcher free fastballs down the middle is an attitude of doom imho. There's more to managing than just game management. Any field general has a battle plan. Big picture stuff. Has to be a visionary. I don't think a lot of managers think that way.

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:08 am The players clearly bear the brunt of the responsibility.
But...you can’t ignore that there are issues with decision making and that team fundamentals are below average.
I consider Marmol below average. Worth looking at along with players.

Manager vs coach...learn the difference. I'm sure you blame him because of his challenge calls because you think he watches the videos before telling the ump

Leadership and culture matter.

I'd say Shildt has proven himself. We saw first hand the impact he had here. Winning attitude and emphasis on fundamentals.

Would Bloom bring back Shildt

Don't sell Oli short. He's also worthless when it doesn't count

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 13:55 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Sep 2025 10:08 am The players clearly bear the brunt of the responsibility.
But...you can’t ignore that there are issues with decision making and that team fundamentals are below average.
I consider Marmol below average. Worth looking at along with players.

Manager vs coach...learn the difference. I'm sure you blame him because of his challenge calls because you think he watches the videos before telling the ump

I apologize!
I didn’t realize this was no longer an “opinion” forum?
Hey congrats though!
Two FULL sentences without abusing the English language or using profanity!
You are truly a CT Treasure!
Here’s an emoji right back at you!
Have another beer!