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Ok. We have an issue. I told Chaim I was willing to hit 7. I’ll do 8th, but only if you make sure there is no yellow Gatorade in the dugout on those days.HorseTrader wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:50 pm I told Chaim I was willing to hit 7th next year. I think I can still put up HOF numbers.......... Shady, odds are either Donovan or Burly will be traded this winter.
You cannot lead off with 3 lefties. come on guy. you're supposed to be baseball-wise (according to yourself)Shady wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 11:32 am At the top of the batting order next season could be the way to go. And it could very well happen.Then get a legitimate power hitter/run producer to go along with Contreras and Herrera at 4, 5 and 6. DeWitt needs to open the checkbook for that "legitimate power hitter/run producer".
Those could work.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:35 pmI have thought about Wetherholt-Donovan vs Donovan-Wetherholt at the top. I like the idea of breaking Wetherholt into the league in the leadoff spot. We know Donovan is great at pulling the ball through the right side with a runner on 1st. There really isn't a 3 hitter on the roster and I like keeping Contreras 4th.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:12 pm Donovan and JJ at the top? Yes
Burleson #3? Probably not.
I would hit Contreras 3rd as of now.
#4???
Gorman? LOL I know but he does have the power especially against RH pitching.
Herrera? Certainly in the mix vs. LH pitching.
I like Burleson for next season but no higher than 5th(vs RH pitching!).
You can also project Winn at 1 or 2 which could drop Donovan or JJ to #3 or # 4???
2B Wetherholt
3B Donovan
RF Burleson
1B Contreras
LF Herrera
DH Gorman
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Or maybe if I do some things different with Donovan leadoff and Contreras 3rd.
LF Donovan (Winn vs LH)
2B Wetherholt
1B Contreras
RF Burleson (Herrera vs LH)
DH Herrera (Burleson)
3B Gorman (Donovan)
SS Winn (Saggese in place of Gorman)
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Maybe Wetherholt would be comfortable like that, sandwiched between the two stalwarts. Donovan can do a great job if he comes to the plate with Winn or Scott II on base. The outfield defense seems ugly no matter how you do it. Oh and I forgot Walker. Well, I'm on board with the idea that he should play in Memphis for a while anyway next year.
I agree, having Contreras 4 and Burleson 5 seems ideal. Then we need a 3 hitter. Maybe Herrera steps forward and becomes "a LH Orlando Cepeda." Winn could take another step but I really like him down in the lineup like a Renteria type.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:04 pmThose could work.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:35 pmI have thought about Wetherholt-Donovan vs Donovan-Wetherholt at the top. I like the idea of breaking Wetherholt into the league in the leadoff spot. We know Donovan is great at pulling the ball through the right side with a runner on 1st. There really isn't a 3 hitter on the roster and I like keeping Contreras 4th.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:12 pm Donovan and JJ at the top? Yes
Burleson #3? Probably not.
I would hit Contreras 3rd as of now.
#4???
Gorman? LOL I know but he does have the power especially against RH pitching.
Herrera? Certainly in the mix vs. LH pitching.
I like Burleson for next season but no higher than 5th(vs RH pitching!).
You can also project Winn at 1 or 2 which could drop Donovan or JJ to #3 or # 4???
2B Wetherholt
3B Donovan
RF Burleson
1B Contreras
LF Herrera
DH Gorman
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Or maybe if I do some things different with Donovan leadoff and Contreras 3rd.
LF Donovan (Winn vs LH)
2B Wetherholt
1B Contreras
RF Burleson (Herrera vs LH)
DH Herrera (Burleson)
3B Gorman (Donovan)
SS Winn (Saggese in place of Gorman)
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Maybe Wetherholt would be comfortable like that, sandwiched between the two stalwarts. Donovan can do a great job if he comes to the plate with Winn or Scott II on base. The outfield defense seems ugly no matter how you do it. Oh and I forgot Walker. Well, I'm on board with the idea that he should play in Memphis for a while anyway next year.
I like Burleson in the lineup especially vs RH pitching but I’m hoping someone else emerges so he could hit 5th.
That speaks to a deeper lineup.
Padilla might be the best prospect of any of the fine young position players the Cardinals have coming along.https://redbirdrants.com/the-cardinals- ... n-prospectimadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:36 pmI agree, having Contreras 4 and Burleson 5 seems ideal. Then we need a 3 hitter. Maybe Herrera steps forward and becomes "a LH Orlando Cepeda." Winn could take another step but I really like him down in the lineup like a Renteria type.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:04 pmThose could work.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:35 pmI have thought about Wetherholt-Donovan vs Donovan-Wetherholt at the top. I like the idea of breaking Wetherholt into the league in the leadoff spot. We know Donovan is great at pulling the ball through the right side with a runner on 1st. There really isn't a 3 hitter on the roster and I like keeping Contreras 4th.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:12 pm Donovan and JJ at the top? Yes
Burleson #3? Probably not.
I would hit Contreras 3rd as of now.
#4???
Gorman? LOL I know but he does have the power especially against RH pitching.
Herrera? Certainly in the mix vs. LH pitching.
I like Burleson for next season but no higher than 5th(vs RH pitching!).
You can also project Winn at 1 or 2 which could drop Donovan or JJ to #3 or # 4???
2B Wetherholt
3B Donovan
RF Burleson
1B Contreras
LF Herrera
DH Gorman
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Or maybe if I do some things different with Donovan leadoff and Contreras 3rd.
LF Donovan (Winn vs LH)
2B Wetherholt
1B Contreras
RF Burleson (Herrera vs LH)
DH Herrera (Burleson)
3B Gorman (Donovan)
SS Winn (Saggese in place of Gorman)
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Maybe Wetherholt would be comfortable like that, sandwiched between the two stalwarts. Donovan can do a great job if he comes to the plate with Winn or Scott II on base. The outfield defense seems ugly no matter how you do it. Oh and I forgot Walker. Well, I'm on board with the idea that he should play in Memphis for a while anyway next year.
I like Burleson in the lineup especially vs RH pitching but I’m hoping someone else emerges so he could hit 5th.
That speaks to a deeper lineup.
Be interesting to see into the future with Baez, Rodriguez, and potentially an improved Herrera in the lineup. But Contreras will only be around so long. He's a placeholder really (34 next year).
I would think that there needs to be a goal of changing the current roster.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:36 pmI agree, having Contreras 4 and Burleson 5 seems ideal. Then we need a 3 hitter. Maybe Herrera steps forward and becomes "a LH Orlando Cepeda." Winn could take another step but I really like him down in the lineup like a Renteria type.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:04 pmThose could work.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:35 pmI have thought about Wetherholt-Donovan vs Donovan-Wetherholt at the top. I like the idea of breaking Wetherholt into the league in the leadoff spot. We know Donovan is great at pulling the ball through the right side with a runner on 1st. There really isn't a 3 hitter on the roster and I like keeping Contreras 4th.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:12 pm Donovan and JJ at the top? Yes
Burleson #3? Probably not.
I would hit Contreras 3rd as of now.
#4???
Gorman? LOL I know but he does have the power especially against RH pitching.
Herrera? Certainly in the mix vs. LH pitching.
I like Burleson for next season but no higher than 5th(vs RH pitching!).
You can also project Winn at 1 or 2 which could drop Donovan or JJ to #3 or # 4???
2B Wetherholt
3B Donovan
RF Burleson
1B Contreras
LF Herrera
DH Gorman
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Or maybe if I do some things different with Donovan leadoff and Contreras 3rd.
LF Donovan (Winn vs LH)
2B Wetherholt
1B Contreras
RF Burleson (Herrera vs LH)
DH Herrera (Burleson)
3B Gorman (Donovan)
SS Winn (Saggese in place of Gorman)
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Maybe Wetherholt would be comfortable like that, sandwiched between the two stalwarts. Donovan can do a great job if he comes to the plate with Winn or Scott II on base. The outfield defense seems ugly no matter how you do it. Oh and I forgot Walker. Well, I'm on board with the idea that he should play in Memphis for a while anyway next year.
I like Burleson in the lineup especially vs RH pitching but I’m hoping someone else emerges so he could hit 5th.
That speaks to a deeper lineup.
Be interesting to see into the future with Baez, Rodriguez, and potentially an improved Herrera in the lineup. But Contreras will only be around so long. He's a placeholder really (34 next year).
That's a very good observation. Total bases and slug.renostl wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 18:23 pmI would think that there needs to be a goal of changing the current roster.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:36 pmI agree, having Contreras 4 and Burleson 5 seems ideal. Then we need a 3 hitter. Maybe Herrera steps forward and becomes "a LH Orlando Cepeda." Winn could take another step but I really like him down in the lineup like a Renteria type.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:04 pmThose could work.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:35 pmI have thought about Wetherholt-Donovan vs Donovan-Wetherholt at the top. I like the idea of breaking Wetherholt into the league in the leadoff spot. We know Donovan is great at pulling the ball through the right side with a runner on 1st. There really isn't a 3 hitter on the roster and I like keeping Contreras 4th.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:12 pm Donovan and JJ at the top? Yes
Burleson #3? Probably not.
I would hit Contreras 3rd as of now.
#4???
Gorman? LOL I know but he does have the power especially against RH pitching.
Herrera? Certainly in the mix vs. LH pitching.
I like Burleson for next season but no higher than 5th(vs RH pitching!).
You can also project Winn at 1 or 2 which could drop Donovan or JJ to #3 or # 4???
2B Wetherholt
3B Donovan
RF Burleson
1B Contreras
LF Herrera
DH Gorman
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Or maybe if I do some things different with Donovan leadoff and Contreras 3rd.
LF Donovan (Winn vs LH)
2B Wetherholt
1B Contreras
RF Burleson (Herrera vs LH)
DH Herrera (Burleson)
3B Gorman (Donovan)
SS Winn (Saggese in place of Gorman)
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Maybe Wetherholt would be comfortable like that, sandwiched between the two stalwarts. Donovan can do a great job if he comes to the plate with Winn or Scott II on base. The outfield defense seems ugly no matter how you do it. Oh and I forgot Walker. Well, I'm on board with the idea that he should play in Memphis for a while anyway next year.
I like Burleson in the lineup especially vs RH pitching but I’m hoping someone else emerges so he could hit 5th.
That speaks to a deeper lineup.
Be interesting to see into the future with Baez, Rodriguez, and potentially an improved Herrera in the lineup. But Contreras will only be around so long. He's a placeholder really (34 next year).
The team has decreased speed along with not having enough SLG. The result is
that too often 3 hits are needed to score runs. I think expecting the current same
roster with the exception of Crooks and JJ would mean that those same players must
either run faster or gain some significant SLG. They are 26th in SLG, in total bases,
and in 22nd in SB.
I'm not really pushing keeping or moving away from any single player. The thoughts are at least twofold.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 18:30 pmThat's a very good observation. Total bases and slug.renostl wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 18:23 pmI would think that there needs to be a goal of changing the current roster.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:36 pmI agree, having Contreras 4 and Burleson 5 seems ideal. Then we need a 3 hitter. Maybe Herrera steps forward and becomes "a LH Orlando Cepeda." Winn could take another step but I really like him down in the lineup like a Renteria type.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:04 pmThose could work.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:35 pmI have thought about Wetherholt-Donovan vs Donovan-Wetherholt at the top. I like the idea of breaking Wetherholt into the league in the leadoff spot. We know Donovan is great at pulling the ball through the right side with a runner on 1st. There really isn't a 3 hitter on the roster and I like keeping Contreras 4th.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:12 pm Donovan and JJ at the top? Yes
Burleson #3? Probably not.
I would hit Contreras 3rd as of now.
#4???
Gorman? LOL I know but he does have the power especially against RH pitching.
Herrera? Certainly in the mix vs. LH pitching.
I like Burleson for next season but no higher than 5th(vs RH pitching!).
You can also project Winn at 1 or 2 which could drop Donovan or JJ to #3 or # 4???
2B Wetherholt
3B Donovan
RF Burleson
1B Contreras
LF Herrera
DH Gorman
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Or maybe if I do some things different with Donovan leadoff and Contreras 3rd.
LF Donovan (Winn vs LH)
2B Wetherholt
1B Contreras
RF Burleson (Herrera vs LH)
DH Herrera (Burleson)
3B Gorman (Donovan)
SS Winn (Saggese in place of Gorman)
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Maybe Wetherholt would be comfortable like that, sandwiched between the two stalwarts. Donovan can do a great job if he comes to the plate with Winn or Scott II on base. The outfield defense seems ugly no matter how you do it. Oh and I forgot Walker. Well, I'm on board with the idea that he should play in Memphis for a while anyway next year.
I like Burleson in the lineup especially vs RH pitching but I’m hoping someone else emerges so he could hit 5th.
That speaks to a deeper lineup.
Be interesting to see into the future with Baez, Rodriguez, and potentially an improved Herrera in the lineup. But Contreras will only be around so long. He's a placeholder really (34 next year).
The team has decreased speed along with not having enough SLG. The result is
that too often 3 hits are needed to score runs. I think expecting the current same
roster with the exception of Crooks and JJ would mean that those same players must
either run faster or gain some significant SLG. They are 26th in SLG, in total bases,
and in 22nd in SB.
I will add that a low strikeout rate is very important too. It seems like every time I check, there is a pretty strong correlation between teams with low strikeout rates and teams that go far in the playoffs. For that reason I see some value in keeping guys like Donovan and Burleson around. I can also see the argument for trading them for pitching, and planning for a further off core centered around JJ, Winn, Herrera, and other players not in the big leagues yet.
Ok agreed on that. They do need to have players set at their proper defensive positions, especially up the middle. Also for the corner outfield spots, there seems to be too many choices, and some that are not defensive assets (you probably wouldn't want two of Burleson/Herrera/Donovan in the OF for any extended time). So it does look like there are tough decisions to make.renostl wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 19:36 pmI'm not really pushing keeping or moving away from any single player. The thoughts are at least twofold.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 18:30 pmThat's a very good observation. Total bases and slug.renostl wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 18:23 pmI would think that there needs to be a goal of changing the current roster.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:36 pmI agree, having Contreras 4 and Burleson 5 seems ideal. Then we need a 3 hitter. Maybe Herrera steps forward and becomes "a LH Orlando Cepeda." Winn could take another step but I really like him down in the lineup like a Renteria type.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 17:04 pmThose could work.imadangman wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:35 pmI have thought about Wetherholt-Donovan vs Donovan-Wetherholt at the top. I like the idea of breaking Wetherholt into the league in the leadoff spot. We know Donovan is great at pulling the ball through the right side with a runner on 1st. There really isn't a 3 hitter on the roster and I like keeping Contreras 4th.Cusecards wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 12:12 pm Donovan and JJ at the top? Yes
Burleson #3? Probably not.
I would hit Contreras 3rd as of now.
#4???
Gorman? LOL I know but he does have the power especially against RH pitching.
Herrera? Certainly in the mix vs. LH pitching.
I like Burleson for next season but no higher than 5th(vs RH pitching!).
You can also project Winn at 1 or 2 which could drop Donovan or JJ to #3 or # 4???
2B Wetherholt
3B Donovan
RF Burleson
1B Contreras
LF Herrera
DH Gorman
SS Winn
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Or maybe if I do some things different with Donovan leadoff and Contreras 3rd.
LF Donovan (Winn vs LH)
2B Wetherholt
1B Contreras
RF Burleson (Herrera vs LH)
DH Herrera (Burleson)
3B Gorman (Donovan)
SS Winn (Saggese in place of Gorman)
C Crooks
CF Scott II
Maybe Wetherholt would be comfortable like that, sandwiched between the two stalwarts. Donovan can do a great job if he comes to the plate with Winn or Scott II on base. The outfield defense seems ugly no matter how you do it. Oh and I forgot Walker. Well, I'm on board with the idea that he should play in Memphis for a while anyway next year.
I like Burleson in the lineup especially vs RH pitching but I’m hoping someone else emerges so he could hit 5th.
That speaks to a deeper lineup.
Be interesting to see into the future with Baez, Rodriguez, and potentially an improved Herrera in the lineup. But Contreras will only be around so long. He's a placeholder really (34 next year).
The team has decreased speed along with not having enough SLG. The result is
that too often 3 hits are needed to score runs. I think expecting the current same
roster with the exception of Crooks and JJ would mean that those same players must
either run faster or gain some significant SLG. They are 26th in SLG, in total bases,
and in 22nd in SB.
I will add that a low strikeout rate is very important too. It seems like every time I check, there is a pretty strong correlation between teams with low strikeout rates and teams that go far in the playoffs. For that reason I see some value in keeping guys like Donovan and Burleson around. I can also see the argument for trading them for pitching, and planning for a further off core centered around JJ, Winn, Herrera, and other players not in the big leagues yet.
The biggest is to not expect much change if the team dynamic stays the same. Another is to ID where each player brings their highest value. In the specific of Donovan and Burleson, IMO, if they are both being seen in the outfield, I think Burleson wins that. BD value is
at 2B and multiple positions.