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Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:26 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:20 am

45s wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:12 am

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 08:58 am Why are blockbuster trades off the table?

because the club doesn't have a single player who is remotely close to that level

Well, Cranny going to have to define what he means. Provide an example.

If he's implying the Cards should give up X prospects for a good player, that would be totally not in line with what the team should be doing.

It is when there’s an excess of players/prospects at any position like catcher and 2B. To see possible deals, look at the players given up in the Goldschmidt and Arenado trades.

They aren’t going to trade for 30+ year-old players.

Nor do they have a late-prime player like Goldschmidt or Arenado (when the birds traded for them) to trade for young prospects.

Bad example Cranny.

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 08:58 am Why are blockbuster trades off the table?

Because by definition a "blockbuster" that favored the Cardinals would mean bringing in a HIGH PRICED player (Re; Goldy/NADO types) and your guy BDWJr doesn't appear eager to even have a modest $150M 2026 payroll.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 10:23 am

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:26 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:20 am

45s wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:12 am

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 08:58 am Why are blockbuster trades off the table?

because the club doesn't have a single player who is remotely close to that level

Well, Cranny going to have to define what he means. Provide an example.

If he's implying the Cards should give up X prospects for a good player, that would be totally not in line with what the team should be doing.

It is when there’s an excess of players/prospects at any position like catcher and 2B. To see possible deals, look at the players given up in the Goldschmidt and Arenado trades.

They aren’t going to trade for 30+ year-old players.

Nor do they have a late-prime player like Goldschmidt or Arenado (when the birds traded for them) to trade for young prospects.

Bad example Cranny.

They surely can trade for a guy who's in his minimum wage or arbitration years for a low budget team. Or they can sign an older guy like Beltran or Berkman to fill in while guys like Baez hopefully mature. And you don't need to have Pages, Pozo,
Crooks, Bernal, and Rodriguez in the system as well as Donovan, Gorman, Fermin, Saggese, and JJ. Plus Nootbaar shouldn't be in their future plans because he doesn't have enough power for corner outfielder or enough defense to beat out
Scott II or Church.

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 10:44 am And you don't need to have Pages, Pozo,
Crooks, Bernal, and Rodriguez in the system as well as Donovan, Gorman, Fermin, Saggese, and JJ. Plus Nootbaar shouldn't be in their future plans because he doesn't have enough power for corner outfielder or enough defense to beat out
Scott II or Church.

NONE

Of these players you listed are "blockbuster" material (sans JJW who's going nowhere).

And don't use Goldy/NADO as an example that "yes they can" since we both know BDWJr is NOT going to bring back a player of that caliber making $25-35M AAV.

There will surely be trades by C. Bloom, he has to thin out the herd and DFA many who are JAG.

But the returns will be in line w/the players dealt, albet those coming back will fill positions of need (re: starting pitching and OF).

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 10:44 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 10:23 am

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:26 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:20 am

45s wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 09:12 am

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 08:58 am Why are blockbuster trades off the table?

because the club doesn't have a single player who is remotely close to that level

Well, Cranny going to have to define what he means. Provide an example.

If he's implying the Cards should give up X prospects for a good player, that would be totally not in line with what the team should be doing.

It is when there’s an excess of players/prospects at any position like catcher and 2B. To see possible deals, look at the players given up in the Goldschmidt and Arenado trades.

They aren’t going to trade for 30+ year-old players.

Nor do they have a late-prime player like Goldschmidt or Arenado (when the birds traded for them) to trade for young prospects.

Bad example Cranny.

They surely can trade for a guy who's in his minimum wage or arbitration years for a low budget team. Or they can sign an older guy like Beltran or Berkman to fill in while guys like Baez hopefully mature. And you don't need to have Pages, Pozo,
Crooks, Bernal, and Rodriguez in the system as well as Donovan, Gorman, Fermin, Saggese, and JJ. Plus Nootbaar shouldn't be in their future plans because he doesn't have enough power for corner outfielder or enough defense to beat out
Scott II or Church.

I agree that they have plenty of pieces they should trade.

That said, still no similarity with Goldschmidt or Arenado.

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 10:44 am They surely can trade for a guy who's in his minimum wage or arbitration years for a low budget team. Or they can sign an older guy like Beltran or Berkman to fill in while guys like Baez hopefully mature. And you don't need to have Pages, Pozo,
Crooks, Bernal, and Rodriguez in the system as well as Donovan, Gorman, Fermin, Saggese, and JJ. Plus Nootbaar shouldn't be in their future plans because he doesn't have enough power for corner outfielder or enough defense to beat out
Scott II or Church.

Some guys you could see would be like Alvarez from the Astros. 3yrs/$75M remaining. Or maybe Trout plus Soriano from the Angels, along with $100M for the 5 years left. Yoshida from the Red Sox. Buxton or Roberts maybe. I could see the Mets trading Senga this winter, which would be a good high-risk move for the Cards to make.

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 10:01 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:59 pm I continue to see posts detailing moves to create a competitive 2026 team. To do so seems like a lot to ask of Bloom and his team. My list of issues to resolve:

Build better starting rotation. There are several holes to fill.

Clear the clutter in the infield. JJ comes up. Several players competing for infield spots. Arenado is taking a roster spot he should not. Donovan should really be at second base IMO. There is some shuffling to do here.

What to do with Gorman and Walker. How do they fit?

Need a big right handed bat ( or two). Need to improve offense in outfield positions.

Need to continue to build depth on roster and in minor leagues

Gray, Arenado, WC NTC. If one or all agree to waive do you trade to fill some of the other holes? Do you keep with hopes of building around?

Do you retain manager and coaches?

Bloom has a long to do list.

I think trading the redundant players would be rather easy. Donovan/Nootbaar, Burleson/Herrera - Trade two of those and the clutter is cleared rather quickly. Donovan and Nootbaar are in their arb years so they likely trade them. I'd prefer they try to keep Herrera myself.

Baseball Trade Value has the quartet valued as Donovan - 23.4, Herrera - 22.0, Nootbaar - 20.2, Burleson - 13.5

Likewise, Walker will 100% be in AAA next year imo. It seems they are saving his option for just that reason.

So then you have LF open for Donovan, DH open for Herrera, Gorman can be the 'backup' for Arenado at 3B, Herrera at DH, Wetherholt at 2B, Winn at SS (move Wetherholt over), and Contreras at 1B. Maybe we can get someone for RF as I hope they don't stick Walker there or keep one of Burleson/Nootbaar in this scenario. Someone like Luis Robert would be fine.

Please tell me those are not all MINUS values? If those are plus values, one or two of those guys plus a good prospect or two should bring back a very good player

Folks who are talking about trading for or signing high dollar players this winter can pretty much forget it. I don't look for the Cards and several others teams to do much until the next CBA is signed and the media rights are settled

What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

HorseTrader wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:38 am
Please tell me those are not all MINUS values? If those are plus values, one or two of those guys plus a good prospect or two should bring back a very good player

Folks who are talking about trading for or signing high dollar players this winter can pretty much forget it. I don't look for the Cards and several others teams to do much until the next CBA is signed and the media rights are settled

No. They are positive values.

HorseTrader wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:38 am

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 10:01 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:59 pm I continue to see posts detailing moves to create a competitive 2026 team. To do so seems like a lot to ask of Bloom and his team. My list of issues to resolve:

Build better starting rotation. There are several holes to fill.

Clear the clutter in the infield. JJ comes up. Several players competing for infield spots. Arenado is taking a roster spot he should not. Donovan should really be at second base IMO. There is some shuffling to do here.

What to do with Gorman and Walker. How do they fit?

Need a big right handed bat ( or two). Need to improve offense in outfield positions.

Need to continue to build depth on roster and in minor leagues

Gray, Arenado, WC NTC. If one or all agree to waive do you trade to fill some of the other holes? Do you keep with hopes of building around?

Do you retain manager and coaches?

Bloom has a long to do list.

I think trading the redundant players would be rather easy. Donovan/Nootbaar, Burleson/Herrera - Trade two of those and the clutter is cleared rather quickly. Donovan and Nootbaar are in their arb years so they likely trade them. I'd prefer they try to keep Herrera myself.

Baseball Trade Value has the quartet valued as Donovan - 23.4, Herrera - 22.0, Nootbaar - 20.2, Burleson - 13.5

Likewise, Walker will 100% be in AAA next year imo. It seems they are saving his option for just that reason.

So then you have LF open for Donovan, DH open for Herrera, Gorman can be the 'backup' for Arenado at 3B, Herrera at DH, Wetherholt at 2B, Winn at SS (move Wetherholt over), and Contreras at 1B. Maybe we can get someone for RF as I hope they don't stick Walker there or keep one of Burleson/Nootbaar in this scenario. Someone like Luis Robert would be fine.

Please tell me those are not all MINUS values? If those are plus values, one or two of those guys plus a good prospect or two should bring back a very good player

Folks who are talking about trading for or signing high dollar players this winter can pretty much forget it. I don't look for the Cards and several others teams to do much until the next CBA is signed and the media rights are settled

Those are positive numbers. The Cardinals have plenty of positive trade value to obtain 1 or 2 ML ready SP prospects. I doubt any of them will be potential #1s. But, a potential #2 and potential #3 SP prospect could put this team in a decent place to contend for a playoff spot next year if they also add a couple veteran relievers. Ridding themselves of Arenado should also be a priority this winter. It was unfortunate the team did not add when they should have in 2021 and 2022 when Goldschmidt and Arenado were in their primes.

Pitchers typically take a couple years to develop. So, it is possible that 2 adds like this could lead to a short term down turn as well why these pitchers get their feet wet. But, if they want to build for the long term, that is what they need. Then we have to hope by 2027 Baez is the MOTOB this team needs to pair with Herrera and Wetherholdt. If that core looks good in 2027, hopefully this time around ownership/management is ready to add to that core to truly try and win instead of just hoping.

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

If you and Cranny think this team will make the playoffs in 2026 I want some of what you’re smoking.

2027 maybe, 2028 is more realistic.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:38 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

If you and Cranny think this team will make the playoffs in 2026 I want some of what you’re smoking.

2027 maybe, 2028 is more realistic.

The fact that this team is sitting only 4.5 games behind a playoff spot with 18 games to go indicates they are not that far off from making the playoffs. Considering they had about 70 starts made by Mikolas, Fedde and Pallante, that is remarkable. Obtaining two pitchers that are better than those three plus perhaps putting Leahy into the rotation shouldn't be that hard. Plus, a full season of Wetherholdt and it is not hard to see a 10 game improvement, which puts them in the bracket.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:47 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:38 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

If you and Cranny think this team will make the playoffs in 2026 I want some of what you’re smoking.

2027 maybe, 2028 is more realistic.

The fact that this team is sitting only 4.5 games behind a playoff spot with 18 games to go indicates they are not that far off from making the playoffs. Considering they had about 70 starts made by Mikolas, Fedde and Pallante, that is remarkable. Obtaining two pitchers that are better than those three plus perhaps putting Leahy into the rotation shouldn't be that hard. Plus, a full season of Wetherholdt and it is not hard to see a 10 game improvement, which puts them in the bracket.

Nobody seems to realize that at least some of the players that have helped them to .500 are going to be traded.
Will their replacements play better in 2026 than our traded players (some of Burleson, Gorman, Donovan, Herrera, etc) played this year?

I doubt it because they’re going to trade for younger players and prospects.

If they make the playoffs next year I’ll happily admit i was wrong.

But I don’t think I’ll be proven wrong.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 14:32 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:47 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:38 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

If you and Cranny think this team will make the playoffs in 2026 I want some of what you’re smoking.

2027 maybe, 2028 is more realistic.

The fact that this team is sitting only 4.5 games behind a playoff spot with 18 games to go indicates they are not that far off from making the playoffs. Considering they had about 70 starts made by Mikolas, Fedde and Pallante, that is remarkable. Obtaining two pitchers that are better than those three plus perhaps putting Leahy into the rotation shouldn't be that hard. Plus, a full season of Wetherholdt and it is not hard to see a 10 game improvement, which puts them in the bracket.

Nobody seems to realize that at least some of the players that have helped them to .500 are going to be traded.
Will their replacements play better in 2026 than our traded players (some of Burleson, Gorman, Donovan, Herrera, etc) played this year?

I doubt it because they’re going to trade for younger players and prospects.

If they make the playoffs next year I’ll happily admit i was wrong.

But I don’t think I’ll be proven wrong.

Herrera possibly traded? Don’t think so.