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NYCardsFan wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 10:33 am

- That's hilarious -

Shady wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 18:11 pm What is preferable? Trading Donovan for a #2 type starting pitcher ( probably including a prospect). Or keeping Donovan and trading Nootbaar for a #4 type starting pitcher.

Both. Nothing to build around on the roster...none.

Shady wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 18:11 pm What is preferable? Trading Donovan for a #2 type starting pitcher ( probably including a prospect). Or keeping Donovan and trading Nootbaar for a #4 type starting pitcher.

Name one #2 starter a team would be willing to trade for Donovan? The answer is that pitcher and franchise willing to do it doesn’t exist

I'd rather get a #3 for Gray.

I’m a big Donovan fan but to get a #2 caliber SP you’d have to add quite a prospect to the deal.
Obviously you’re not trading JJ.
I suppose if you found the right team that needed:
An infielder? (Donovan)
A Catcher? (One of the top catching prospects)
And a quality pitching prospect? (Mathews might get it done?)
More likely they would want Doyle which I would NOT go for!!

craviduce wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 10:23 am "trade Carlson for 2 Front of the rotation starters"

"trade Arenado for 2 Front of the Rotations Starters"

"trade Arenado for 1 Front of the Rotation Starters"

"Trade Helsley for 2 Front of the Rotation Starters"

"Trade Helsley for 1 Front of the Rotation Starters"

"Trade Walker and Gorman for 1 Front of the Rotation Starter"

now we have "Trade Donovan for a #2 Pitcher (which is considered a FOTR), and make the Pirates do it"


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that's 4 years worth of the same thread, and 10-20 posts on each scenario...

oh and the response or the expanse from the OP was "A savvy GM could do it"

A really savvy GM would trade Burleson for Ohtani.

Shady wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 10:14 am Especially, a cost controlled player with #2 type ability in the near future. Bloom may need to add a prospect in order to pull it off. Would the Cardinals trade within the division? Because the Pirates might just be a trade partner for pitching. I'm not thrilled to trade Donovan. But he may be the type talent that can get that much needed starting pitching help for next season. A #3 or #4 type for Nootbaar could also be a possible option.

You could throw in your MV3, Burleson, Sagesse, and Roby with Donovan and still not pull a front end starter. No way out of this hole except better drafting and development which is going to take a long time with not much to build around.

BDW won’t spend on a high-end pitcher in free agency and Dusty Blake isn’t going to pull a Dave Duncan and resurrect some “low hanging fruit” cheap guy’s career.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 23:26 pm

Shady wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 10:14 am Especially, a cost controlled player with #2 type ability in the near future. Bloom may need to add a prospect in order to pull it off. Would the Cardinals trade within the division? Because the Pirates might just be a trade partner for pitching. I'm not thrilled to trade Donovan. But he may be the type talent that can get that much needed starting pitching help for next season. A #3 or #4 type for Nootbaar could also be a possible option.

You could throw in your MV3, Burleson, Sagesse, and Roby with Donovan and still not pull a front end starter. No way out of this hole except better drafting and development which is going to take a long time with not much to build around.

BDW won’t spend on a high-end pitcher in free agency and Dusty Blake isn’t going to pull a Dave Duncan and resurrect some “low hanging fruit” cheap guy’s career.

Cards need so much SP that it will be quite the mission to accomplish.
It's always available to buy, but I'll assume modest at most spending.

Teams trade pitchers for missing pieces, like a Donovan or Burleson might be, but usually that
pitcher isn't a key part of the current rotation, and the Cards need is 2026. They also trade them before they lose them, which
implies they're getting expensive and those teams will want young, controlled players, in return.

Unless there is an India for Singer deal out there, and I see both Burleson and Donovan as superior to India.
The Cards may be forced to trade their best current chips toward prospects and buy similar to
what they did in 2024 with Lynn and Gibson.

Interesting off season. They could surprise and use Herrera or Gorman in a trade.

craviduce wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 10:23 am "trade Carlson for 2 Front of the rotation starters"

"trade Arenado for 2 Front of the Rotations Starters"

"trade Arenado for 1 Front of the Rotation Starters"

"Trade Helsley for 2 Front of the Rotation Starters"

"Trade Helsley for 1 Front of the Rotation Starters"

"Trade Walker and Gorman for 1 Front of the Rotation Starter"

now we have "Trade Donovan for a #2 Pitcher (which is considered a FOTR), and make the Pirates do it"


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that's 4 years worth of the same thread, and 10-20 posts on each scenario...

oh and the response or the expanse from the OP was "A savvy GM could do it"

do not forget he also asked if the Pirates would want Gorman and Walker for Skenes

The starting pitching looks pretty bleak for next season.

redbirdfan51 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 08:31 am The starting pitching looks pretty bleak for next season.

Wonder if the Pirates would be interested in taking a chance on Walker in exchange for one of their young flame throwers other than Skenes. They had some pitchers in the last series that were "bringing the heat". Ex. Bubba Chandler.

Shady wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 09:19 am

redbirdfan51 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 08:31 am The starting pitching looks pretty bleak for next season.

Wonder if the Pirates would be interested in taking a chance on Walker in exchange for one of their young flame throwers other than Skenes. They had some pitchers in the last series that were "bringing the heat". Ex. Bubba Chandler.

Leading up to the trade deadline, you were shown repeatedly that Walker’s trade value right now is de minimis. So why do you continue to plow ahead with the same nonsensical spam over and over again?

Per BTV:
Chandler: 59.6
Walker: 0

They only way you trade for a #2 is to overpay for an older pitcher, like Gray.

OldRed wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 09:37 am They only way you trade for a #2 is to overpay for an older pitcher, like Gray.

I really hoped the Cardinals had a future #2 coming along in the organization in Roby. A #3 type, at least. I'm not getting my hopes up now, considering his recent setback.

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 09:34 am

Shady wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 09:19 am

redbirdfan51 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 08:31 am The starting pitching looks pretty bleak for next season.

Wonder if the Pirates would be interested in taking a chance on Walker in exchange for one of their young flame throwers other than Skenes. They had some pitchers in the last series that were "bringing the heat". Ex. Bubba Chandler.

Leading up to the trade deadline, you were shown repeatedly that Walker’s trade value right now is de minimis. So why do you continue to plow ahead with the same nonsensical spam over and over again?

Per BTV:
Chandler: 59.6
Walker: 0

Shady has dementia.

Shady wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 09:44 am

OldRed wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 09:37 am They only way you trade for a #2 is to overpay for an older pitcher, like Gray.

I really hoped the Cardinals had a future #2 coming along in the organization in Roby. A #3 type, at least. I'm not getting my hopes up now, considering his recent setback.

Never understood the obsession with slotting pitchers with a numbering system (1-5). Just find 4 professionals that can keep an ERA under 4 and another under 4.5.

There’s very few Skenes and Skubals but you should be able to find guys with enough talent to hold a 3.5 to 4 range ERA. They are not white whales or unicorns that are impossible to find.

Basically, the Cardinals just employ the worst guys. Liberatore is the only one worth keeping. Apologies to the McGreevy lovers but he was mediocre in MiLB and not going to magically become an ace in MLB.

Bottom line, the Cardinals make the dumbest choices for the rotation. Bloom should improve the situation because we’ve got nowhere to go but up from where we’re at now.