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Extending a manager who just participated in a train wreck season and acted like a clown throughout it, was just stupid.

Saying the extension was given so the manager felt no pressure to win was even dumber.

Holding a press conference to clumsily announce a reset, changing it to a "runway season ", and then half-assing the job, is as dumb as it gets.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the current state of the StL Cardinals. BDW is out of touch, BDW3 is disinterested, and Johnny bow ties is an idiot.

hmoss859 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 16:56 pm When the ownership states there’s no pressure to win to the manager, you get a pretty [shirt]ty product and the fans are not putting up with it, by not showing up. That statement has been sent loud and clear

I expect this standoff will continue until DeWitt spends to field a truly competitive team or sells the team

Is this your introduction to a team rebuilding?

It’s up to DeWitt, ball is in his court, the fans have spoken

If he wants 15k per game during the rebuild, more power to him

However, the misery index will eventually crack him to either spend or sell

Millionaires and billionaires don’t like to be miserable

hmoss859 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 18:10 pm It’s up to DeWitt, ball is in his court, the fans have spoken

If he wants 15k per game during the rebuild, more power to him

However, the misery index will eventually crack him to either spend or sell

Millionaires and billionaires don’t like to be miserable

And the ball has bounced once……

I don't care about guys laughing in the dugout. Who cares? Last year everyone complained that the clubhouse was miserable. It's a sport. Guys are going to laugh and have fun. You're not going to be stone faced and angry when losing in a sport in which the best teams lose 60+ times a year.

That said, I do believe that there may be something to this culture of perceived indifference to losing and just acting as if everything is fine and no need to change course. And I think that starts from the top. Ownership can't be bothered to go the extra mile every now and again to spend and bring in a player for a desperately needed position, and they seem okay with competing for a wild card spot and hoping to get lucky and win a game or two. And if not, no big deal, they'll just do the same thing next year. If anything, they'll blame the fans for not showing up.

Then you've got Mo. I think he's better than he gets credit for around here, but he also doesn't seem too concerned about changing the way they do things, no matter if things work out or not. Drafting the same boring pitchers every year? Whatever, it'll work out eventually. People just don't get it. We've fired a few managers, but not much else has changed.

So, yea, if that's the attitude from the owners and front office, I guess the players should be confident as well. Look at Mikolas or any other player that's been strangely extended near the end of their career. They're still going to get starts no matter what. So why should they care? And why should players looking to get a spot from one of them care if they know that the contract will always play?

I don't know. Something isn't right and hopefully that changes next season.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 17:36 pm Extending a manager who just participated in a train wreck season and acted like a clown throughout it, was just stupid.

Saying the extension was given so the manager felt no pressure to win was even dumber.

Holding a press conference to clumsily announce a reset, changing it to a "runway season ", and then half-assing the job, is as dumb as it gets.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the current state of the StL Cardinals. BDW is out of touch, BDW3 is disinterested, and Johnny bow ties is an idiot.

You cannot ever say winning is not important as a president of baseball operations. He needed to go as soon as those words were uttered along with his stooge manager.

Punkk6 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 15:53 pm

Ordinary Man wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 15:49 pm Wasn't it after the 71-91 season that Oli was extended so he didn't have to feel pressure to win? It's hard to believe this is the St. Louis Cardinals. I hope DeWitt is proud of his work.

He is proud that his bank account went up, even with lower attendance

Interesting Forbes has the. cardinals making 4 mil yet when they were spending $175m they were making $35m min. So spending does generate more profit

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 16:29 pm

Ordinary Man wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 15:49 pm Wasn't it after the 71-91 season that Oli was extended so he didn't have to feel pressure to win? It's hard to believe this is the St. Louis Cardinals. I hope DeWitt is proud of his work.

Wasn't it also Dewitt who said after that season something paraphrased like, "The is the St. Louis Cardinals. We and our fans hold ourselves to a higher standard. This can't and won't continue."

And then not long after that they extended Oli so he "wouldn't feel so much pressure to win."

lol, what a trainwreck

After the disastrous 2023 71-91 record, our illustrious Chairman and POBO did not even hold an end-of-season press conference.

Neither Dewitt nor Mozeliak said anything publicly after 2023.

The part about Marmol’s extension happened as you said.

Ordinary Man wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 15:49 pm Wasn't it after the 71-91 season that Oli was extended so he didn't have to feel pressure to win? It's hard to believe this is the St. Louis Cardinals. I hope DeWitt is proud of his work.

Correct about no pressure to win. And Oli has made several statements to the effect of losing is ok as long as you learn something.

The tolerance of losing is astounding and is a cultural issue that permeates from top to bottom of the organization. A complete house cleaning is in order.

icon wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 19:48 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 17:36 pm Extending a manager who just participated in a train wreck season and acted like a clown throughout it, was just stupid.

Saying the extension was given so the manager felt no pressure to win was even dumber.

Holding a press conference to clumsily announce a reset, changing it to a "runway season ", and then half-assing the job, is as dumb as it gets.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the current state of the StL Cardinals. BDW is out of touch, BDW3 is disinterested, and Johnny bow ties is an idiot.

You cannot ever say winning is not important as a president of baseball operations. He needed to go as soon as those words were uttered along with his stooge manager.

In most situations, hackgate would've resulted in termination. Either he was behind it, or was clueless what people under him were doing. Both are fireable offenses.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 21:36 pm

icon wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 19:48 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 17:36 pm Extending a manager who just participated in a train wreck season and acted like a clown throughout it, was just stupid.

Saying the extension was given so the manager felt no pressure to win was even dumber.

Holding a press conference to clumsily announce a reset, changing it to a "runway season ", and then half-assing the job, is as dumb as it gets.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the current state of the StL Cardinals. BDW is out of touch, BDW3 is disinterested, and Johnny bow ties is an idiot.

You cannot ever say winning is not important as a president of baseball operations. He needed to go as soon as those words were uttered along with his stooge manager.

In most situations, hackgate would've resulted in termination. Either he was behind it, or was clueless what people under him were doing. Both are fireable offenses.

Good point.

Consider the source ..Jeff Brantley 'the Cowboy' Any chance he gets to 'knock the Cardinals , he will gladly do so ' Read the background if you don't already know ...

Brantley has bitter resentment toward Cardinals .

historical evidence from his short playing tenure there suggests significant issues and lingering resentment. His experience with the team ended poorly, and he has spoken negatively about the organization and its fans.
Brantley's contentious 1998 season
Brantley, a former closer, was traded to the Cardinals in 1997 after recovering from shoulder surgery. The following season, his performance was disappointing, and he clashed with the organization.
Conflicts with coaching: Brantley described his relationship with pitching coach Dave Duncan as "absolutely terrible". Brantley felt he was mishandled and made a "scapegoat" by the team.
Criticism of fans: After struggling on the field and being removed from the closer role, Brantley was booed by Cardinals fans at Busch Stadium. This left him with negative feelings about his treatment. He said, "I was treated grossly unfairly in that ballpark".
Poor performance: In his single season with the Cardinals, Brantley posted an 0-5 record with a 4.44 ERA and blew eight save opportunities. His ERA was even higher in home games.
Acrimonious departure: The Cardinals traded Brantley at the end of the 1998 season. Then-manager Tony La Russa publicly criticized Brantley and fellow player Ron Gant following the trades, defending Duncan and questioning their effort.
Resentment and commentary
Brantley has worked as a commentator for the rival Cincinnati Reds for nearly two decades. His past experience gives some context for how he views the Cardinals organization, although his commentary is typically focused on his team. His bitter 1998 season shows that the poor relationship was a two-way street, involving conflicts with coaching and negative treatment from fans, which likely shaped his perspective for years to come.

People can talk [shirt] about Jeff Brantley and what he said but I would take him over Oli as manager in a NY minute. This franchise is a punchline.

2ninr wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 17:15 pm Did we need Jeff Brantley to tell us that? Seriously.

Love it. Great point. Actions speak louder than words. Hence, the empty stadium.

Ordinary Man wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 15:49 pm Wasn't it after the 71-91 season that Oli was extended so he didn't have to feel pressure to win? It's hard to believe this is the St. Louis Cardinals. I hope DeWitt is proud of his work.

+1

hmoss859 wrote: ↑01 Sep 2025 18:10 pm It’s up to DeWitt, ball is in his court, the fans have spoken

If he wants 15k per game during the rebuild, more power to him

However, the misery index will eventually crack him to either spend or sell

Millionaires and billionaires don’t like to be miserable

Fans can tolerate a rebuild and they can tolerate a mediocre team. What they can't tolerate is FO that is putting on a mediocre product without a strong drawing point or without a clearly enunciated and clearly visible rebuild/reload strategy.

They do not have a Pujols or McGwire or other such draw and their 'reset' strategy has been anything but enunciated or executed in a way to give fans hope they will be contending again soon. Keeping Oli and downplaying what they expect from him isnt helping