rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 08:56 am
Disagree OR
-WillyC & Gray have value if they'd waive.
-Donny has value, so does Winn & Burly.
-Noot coupled w/one of the young catchers does too.
-JoJo is a trade asset.
-Hererra could interest a team that thinks they can fix his throwing issues behind the plate, so do any one of the minor league catchers.
Rock is right. We do have players other teams want and value. We become dissatisfied because we try to make these guys the middle of the order bat, or the ace, or the closer. Most of these guys are not centerpiece type players. They are serviceable, to above average, major league players that are valuable to a contender who does have some centerpiece type players.
Thx TB
They may not bring back a "star" ML player but the above could add solid prospects or a starting pitcher or two.
Look at T. Edman.
On that Dodgers team loaded w/stars he was a perfect fit!
Donovan could be the same on a similar team, Noot could be a solid #3/4 OFer and Burly a nice 1B/DH option.
I think C. Bloom has some good pieces and he's going to use them in trades.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 08:56 am
Disagree OR
-WillyC & Gray have value if they'd waive.
-Donny has value, so does Winn & Burly.
-Noot coupled w/one of the young catchers does too.
-JoJo is a trade asset.
-Hererra could interest a team that thinks they can fix his throwing issues behind the plate, so do any one of the minor league catchers.
Rock is right. We do have players other teams want and value. We become dissatisfied because we try to make these guys the middle of the order bat, or the ace, or the closer. Most of these guys are not centerpiece type players. They are serviceable, to above average, major league players that are valuable to a contender who does have some centerpiece type players.
Thx TB
They may not bring back a "star" ML player but the above could add solid prospects or a starting pitcher or two.
Look at T. Edman.
On that Dodgers team loaded w/stars he was a perfect fit!
Donovan could be the same on a similar team, Noot could be a solid #3/4 OFer and Burly a nice 1B/DH option.
I think C. Bloom has some good pieces and he's going to use them in trades.
JMO
I still wouldn't trade those pieces unless they are redundant and/or we get more talent in return (and not just $ savings). Noot, Burly sure. Trading Donovan makes us worse but would work if we get someone we REALLY NEED back. Willson and Gray I really wouldn't trade because we don't have better options - they aren't redundant and trading them just requires us to trade other prospects to get someone to replace them.
Trading Gorman or Walker is where it could get interesting. As well as some of that logjam of prospect depth in the higher minors. Though that might be the part that has "no value". It could still work though with a team that has excess talent at the same position and needs to move one becaus they can't both play.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 08:56 am
Disagree OR
-WillyC & Gray have value if they'd waive.
-Donny has value, so does Winn & Burly.
-Noot coupled w/one of the young catchers does too.
-JoJo is a trade asset.
-Hererra could interest a team that thinks they can fix his throwing issues behind the plate, so do any one of the minor league catchers.
Rock is right. We do have players other teams want and value. We become dissatisfied because we try to make these guys the middle of the order bat, or the ace, or the closer. Most of these guys are not centerpiece type players. They are serviceable, to above average, major league players that are valuable to a contender who does have some centerpiece type players.
I agree with Rock and Talkin'. We currently employ on our MLB roster only a couple of sacred cows--Winn and ??? The rest I am happy to trade to find a high upside MiLB pitcher or two.
The OP is more correct than the Cards hired minions on this site will want to admit. They made a series of trades at the deadline and strengthened the B level minor leaguers in the system. No future stars were added.
Had they traded Helsley last winter that may have been different.
Currently they have very few players worth more than another B level minor league player.
This rebuild winter could last a long time. They will have to import more players through free agency than their budget will desire.
Adding free agents this winter like Dylan Cease, Jose Quintana, Phil Maton and Shelby Miller would likely strengthen the pitching core.
Adding an excellent defensive catcher would make a great impact on all of the pitching staff.
Adding a couple of hitters that are "Aircraft Carriers" could protect guys like Winn, Donovan and Wetherholt.
Clearing out duplicity on the squad with a zillion outfielders, infielders and catchers would help as well.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 08:56 am
Disagree OR
-WillyC & Gray have value if they'd waive.
-Donny has value, so does Winn & Burly.
-Noot coupled w/one of the young catchers does too.
-JoJo is a trade asset.
-Hererra could interest a team that thinks they can fix his throwing issues behind the plate, so do any one of the minor league catchers.
At this pointni have a hard time believing gray has a ton of value and wed have to eat the majority of his contract to move him. Remember his contract was backloaded.
Herrera is the most i triguing trade candidate because while i dont think bhrleson or donovam could fetch much more than the whole they ope ed up, if another team truly still sees herrera as a catcher- them herrera would have more value to that team than to us so maybe he could fet h a better piece for us.
Im not co vinced other teams are totally overlooking that but its worth exploring in trade market, especially with herrera saying he wants to catch. But bad defense isnt his only concern there- hes had leg and knee injuries with a position that isnt kind to those.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 08:56 am
Disagree OR
-WillyC & Gray have value if they'd waive.
-Donny has value, so does Winn & Burly.
-Noot coupled w/one of the young catchers does too.
-JoJo is a trade asset.
-Hererra could interest a team that thinks they can fix his throwing issues behind the plate, so do any one of the minor league catchers.
Rock is right. We do have players other teams want and value. We become dissatisfied because we try to make these guys the middle of the order bat, or the ace, or the closer. Most of these guys are not centerpiece type players. They are serviceable, to above average, major league players that are valuable to a contender who does have some centerpiece type players.
Thx TB
They may not bring back a "star" ML player but the above could add solid prospects or a starting pitcher or two.
Look at T. Edman.
On that Dodgers team loaded w/stars he was a perfect fit!
Donovan could be the same on a similar team, Noot could be a solid #3/4 OFer and Burly a nice 1B/DH option.
I think C. Bloom has some good pieces and he's going to use them in trades.
JMO
I still wouldn't trade those pieces unless they are redundant and/or we get more talent in return (and not just $ savings). Noot, Burly sure. Trading Donovan makes us worse but would work if we get someone we REALLY NEED back. Willson and Gray I really wouldn't trade because we don't have better options - they aren't redundant and trading them just requires us to trade other prospects to get someone to replace them.
Trading Gorman or Walker is where it could get interesting. As well as some of that logjam of prospect depth in the higher minors. Though that might be the part that has "no value".
And I don't think Bloom will carp.
Despite what some on here are trying to say he made some incredibly great trades while in Boston.
I think Donny + ???? could bring back a starting ML pitcher.
I want to keep Gray too.
I'm a big fan of WillyC's but dealing him opens up 1st base for either Gorman or Burly.
I'm NOT dealing Gorman (last 205 PA: 12 HR/243 .346 .480 .827), he's really starting to figure things out and is the only true power bat in the organization!
rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 08:56 am
Disagree OR
-WillyC & Gray have value if they'd waive.
-Donny has value, so does Winn & Burly.
-Noot coupled w/one of the young catchers does too.
-JoJo is a trade asset.
-Hererra could interest a team that thinks they can fix his throwing issues behind the plate, so do any one of the minor league catchers.
At this pointni have a hard time believing gray has a ton of value and wed have to eat the majority of his contract to move him. Remember his contract was backloaded.
Herrera is the most i triguing trade candidate because while i dont think bhrleson or donovam could fetch much more than the whole they ope ed up, if another team truly still sees herrera as a catcher- them herrera would have more value to that team than to us so maybe he could fet h a better piece for us.
Im not co vinced other teams are totally overlooking that but its worth exploring in trade market, especially with herrera saying he wants to catch. But bad defense isnt his only concern there- hes had leg and knee injuries with a position that isnt kind to those.
Gray could bring back a solid prospect IF BDWJr is willing to eat some of his deal (yea I know, $35M).
I think Donny would return a #3/4 starting pitcher, better if he's coupled w/?????
Same w/Burly.
Hererra is interesting, especially if an acquiring team see's him as their catcher.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 08:56 am
Disagree OR
-WillyC & Gray have value if they'd waive.
-Donny has value, so does Winn & Burly.
-Noot coupled w/one of the young catchers does too.
-JoJo is a trade asset.
-Hererra could interest a team that thinks they can fix his throwing issues behind the plate, so do any one of the minor league catchers.
And you expect to get more back in return?
Define "more" for me OR.
Are you kidding?
Well, here it is: A greater or additional amount.
In context????
Like would you trade a 4 yr vet with expected WAR of 3.5 with STd Dev of 1 WAR and expected salary of $5M for a "prospect" which has expected ceiling of 4 WAR and floor of 0 and a 50% odds of ever remaining on a MLB roster for >1 yr of service time, and would make minimum wage for the normal period?
OldRed wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 07:40 am
In my opinion the Cardinals don't have talented players to trade and make improvements.
What’s the problem? You never addressed it. My thoughts. The problem with rebuilds is time and patience. Neither of which we have much of.
Well said.
It will be years before this team is good enough to compete for a title. But that's better than the win-a-little-now game that the team has been playing since 2012. That team was never gonna get good enough.
Many CT fans complaining about the rebuild taking time didn't want to do the rebuild in the first place. They want everything now. And that attitude gets you nothing but also-ran trophies.
