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zoiks wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:34 pm Burleson should platoon with Herrera in LF next season, since Burleson can’t hit LH pitching. Herrera would DH against RH SP.

Nootbaar should be the RF next season for the 50% of games he’s healthy. Walker has only 1 option left and should spend all or nearly all of next season in AAA Memphis until he shows he can lift the ball with power consistently. Nootbaar’s trade value has never been lower, so I see no reason to trade him.

Donovan is a bad defensive corner OF, Wetherholt will take his place at 2B, and Arenado is untradable, so Donovan can’t move to 3B. Donovan is the team’s best trade piece and should be traded for pitching in the off-season.

Scott and Church can fight it out for who is the starting CF next season and who is the 5th OF.

Gorman can get enough AB’s filling in at 2B, 3B, and DH. When Arenado is gone, he’ll likely be the starting 3B.

The team needs Walker or Baez to pan out long-term and play RF, giving the team a much needed RH bat in the lineup. A RH veteran corner OF needs to acquired in the off-season to split RF with Nootbaar and cover the games Nootbaar is inevitably on the IL.

The type of prospects any of the LH hitters besides Donovan would get in a trade would be garbage level prospects, so I see no reason to trade any of them.

You don't trade them for prospects. Trade them for a compent RH OF with a non-zero $ contract attached. Theres plenty of dry powder to afford that type of trade.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 19:45 pm You don't trade them for prospects. Trade them for a compent RH OF with a non-zero $ contract attached. Theres plenty of dry powder to afford that type of trade.

There is 0 chance Dewitt is spending money before the lockout ends and the next CBA is in effect. There’s also 0 chance any of the non-Donovan LH JAG’s on the Cardinals roster bring a return of a RH OF that should be in the starting lineup of a contending MLB team.

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:32 pm Noot and Gorman are the first two I'd move on from. No need to actively shop anyone else. The other teams would have to come to us. You can get to at least the trade deadline 2026 before making hard decisions on the rest of them.

AGREED!

Why trade Burleson? He's the only guy on the list who keeps improving all-around year over year.
Noot isn't any better. Gorman is worse on defense and still hasn't put up with 2023 numbers on offense.

Burleson has improved his slash line (all parts), his fielding and his baserunning. He's actually done so year-over-year for 4 straight seasons.
I'm not a massive Burly fan, but he's one of the guys who is actually showing he can play everyday in the MLB.

zoiks wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 19:54 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 19:45 pm You don't trade them for prospects. Trade them for a compent RH OF with a non-zero $ contract attached. Theres plenty of dry powder to afford that type of trade.

There is 0 chance Dewitt is spending money before the lockout ends and the next CBA is in effect. There’s also 0 chance any of the non-Donovan LH JAG’s on the Cardinals roster bring a return of a RH OF that should be in the starting lineup of a contending MLB team.

Wrong - we got HOFers for Carson Kelly and Austin Gombers. If theres a salary attached that the other team doesn't want to afford, anything is possible.

And BDW can't spend 0. If we go into the CBA negotiations with a $50M payroll, we have zero credibility or negotiating power to affect change. He becomes the coward that no one will listen to.

TXCardsFanX wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 20:02 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:32 pm Noot and Gorman are the first two I'd move on from. No need to actively shop anyone else. The other teams would have to come to us. You can get to at least the trade deadline 2026 before making hard decisions on the rest of them.

AGREED!

Why trade Burleson? He's the only guy on the list who keeps improving all-around year over year.
Noot isn't any better. Gorman is worse on defense and still hasn't put up with 2023 numbers on offense.

Burleson has improved his slash line (all parts), his fielding and his baserunning. He's actually done so year-over-year for 4 straight seasons.
I'm not a massive Burly fan, but he's one of the guys who is actually showing he can play everyday in the MLB.

He has several years of control too (so does Donovan). I agree with the poster who stated Donovan is our best trade chip. That is true. So if a trade presents itself where you get a top pitcher you can think about it (but still, an everyday position player for a SP?).

The other factor is this lockout. How many years of control do they have now? The second question is how many years of control do they have left starting on opening day 2027 or 2028? And do you plan to extend one (Burleson or Donovan) before then.

If you get to the trade deadline 2026 and the team looks years away from contending, and if they are still hesitant to make longterm commitments (even extensions to arb players), that's where you might entertain a trade. Would be tough though.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 20:14 pm Wrong - we got HOFers for Carson Kelly and Austin Gombers. If theres a salary attached that the other team doesn't want to afford, anything is possible.

And BDW can't spend 0. If we go into the CBA negotiations with a $50M payroll, we have zero credibility or negotiating power to affect change. He becomes the coward that no one will listen to.

Again, Dewitt is not spending any money this offseason, unless you count paying down Arenado and Gray’s contracts to move them in salary dump trades as spending money. Remember last offseason? It will be more of that until there’s a new CBA. It’s foolish to expect otherwise.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 14:22 pm Burleson - RF, LF, 1B
Noot - CF, RF, LF
Gorman - 3B, 2B
Donny - 2B, 3B, LF, RF
JJW - 2B, SS, 3B
Scott - CF
Church - OF
Crooks (Potentially) - C

Depending on where you play Donny, you either have a logjam of corner OF or a logjam 2B/3B.

I think you need to trade 2 of the 3 of Donny, Burly, Noot. Who would you trade? Who brings back the better return?

Burly - Pro is his bat. Con is his defense
Donny - Pro is his versatility. I'm not sure there is much of a Con. He is who he is.
Noot - Pro is his on-base ability and his rounded game. Con is his streakiness and inability to stay healthy.

I am probably shopping Noot and Burly. I am keeping Donny unless I am blown away by his all-around offensive/defensive flexibility, as well as his leadership.

I would be open to trading any of the left handed bats outside of Wetherholt if I could package them for a legit top of the rotation pitcher. There is far more hitting wise to choose from than there is pitching wise.

zoiks wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 22:06 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 20:14 pm Wrong - we got HOFers for Carson Kelly and Austin Gombers. If theres a salary attached that the other team doesn't want to afford, anything is possible.

And BDW can't spend 0. If we go into the CBA negotiations with a $50M payroll, we have zero credibility or negotiating power to affect change. He becomes the coward that no one will listen to.

Again, Dewitt is not spending any money this offseason, unless you count paying down Arenado and Gray’s contracts to move them in salary dump trades as spending money. Remember last offseason? It will be more of that until there’s a new CBA. It’s foolish to expect otherwise.

I would love to agree with Carp and say you are way off base, but the facts show you have it 100% nailed. Dewitt was waiting on the next CBA hoping for a salary cap. He is not going to allow any significant bumps in payroll until that. He doesn’t see a reason to spend when the large market teams are building teams with multiple super stars just to get bounced from the first round by them.

He is banking on a salary cap and the larger market teams to bring their spending back to where the Cardinals are comfortable spending. He will lose that battle as there will be a lockout/strike and the owners will cave again at the end of it as baseball will never get a cap. At that point he will continue running the team as Angelo did the Orioles where no money will be spent outside of occasional b level free agents when money comes off the book.

It’s going to need to be them going the route of hitting player development which DeWitt also puts limitations on as he won’t spend on anyone significant internationally at the amateur level. If you are going to go the player development route, you can’t accomplish that with b level international amateur players, you need to be hitting the top of the class to get those people to the majors.

I have mentioned before, what international amateur free agents has he signed that has been a star. It has never happened as he won’t invest in it. Carlos Martinez probably was the best of the bunch. Oscar might had been but that’s going back more than ten years and we will never get that answer.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:35 pm None of the players currently on the roster are players you build around so they should be open to trading any of them
For prospects. If the cardinals are legitimately going to try to win next season and make moves to make it happen then yea keep burly and Donovan if they are going to continue the runway or do a rebuild then they and Gorman should should be traded if they offer good prospects

Sad situation, but true and that includes all right-handed batters with exception of Winn.

We desperately need at least one Carp/Waino type at the top of the rotation. But guys with that level of potential are going to command JJW in return. Donny, Noot, Burly or Gorman won't get it done and JJW might not by himself. Young pitching is the most valuable commodity in MLB.

Signing a 30+ yr old vet to a LTC won't happen, at least right now. The owners seem to think they can get a cap in the next contract, but that won't come without a floor that the small market teams won't accept. But I don't see the team going all in on big deals (if ever) at this point until a new agreement is in place.

Hopefully Bloom can spot a vet coming off an injury that will come on a 1 yr deal.

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 21:05 pm

TXCardsFanX wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 20:02 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:32 pm Noot and Gorman are the first two I'd move on from. No need to actively shop anyone else. The other teams would have to come to us. You can get to at least the trade deadline 2026 before making hard decisions on the rest of them.

AGREED!

Why trade Burleson? He's the only guy on the list who keeps improving all-around year over year.
Noot isn't any better. Gorman is worse on defense and still hasn't put up with 2023 numbers on offense.

Burleson has improved his slash line (all parts), his fielding and his baserunning. He's actually done so year-over-year for 4 straight seasons.
I'm not a massive Burly fan, but he's one of the guys who is actually showing he can play everyday in the MLB.

He has several years of control too (so does Donovan). I agree with the poster who stated Donovan is our best trade chip. That is true. So if a trade presents itself where you get a top pitcher you can think about it (but still, an everyday position player for a SP?).

The other factor is this lockout. How many years of control do they have now? The second question is how many years of control do they have left starting on opening day 2027 or 2028? And do you plan to extend one (Burleson or Donovan) before then.

If you get to the trade deadline 2026 and the team looks years away from contending, and if they are still hesitant to make longterm commitments (even extensions to arb players), that's where you might entertain a trade. Would be tough though.

For me, you have to have a core of solid players to build around. The Pirates are never good because they "cash in" on the majority of their prospects who turn out good (or even decent).
I wouldn't trade Donovan or Burleson, unless you somehow can get same/better value starting pitching.
Like you said, though: Noot and Gorman are expendable.

TXCardsFanX wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 07:56 am

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 21:05 pm

TXCardsFanX wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 20:02 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 15:32 pm Noot and Gorman are the first two I'd move on from. No need to actively shop anyone else. The other teams would have to come to us. You can get to at least the trade deadline 2026 before making hard decisions on the rest of them.

AGREED!

Why trade Burleson? He's the only guy on the list who keeps improving all-around year over year.
Noot isn't any better. Gorman is worse on defense and still hasn't put up with 2023 numbers on offense.

Burleson has improved his slash line (all parts), his fielding and his baserunning. He's actually done so year-over-year for 4 straight seasons.
I'm not a massive Burly fan, but he's one of the guys who is actually showing he can play everyday in the MLB.

He has several years of control too (so does Donovan). I agree with the poster who stated Donovan is our best trade chip. That is true. So if a trade presents itself where you get a top pitcher you can think about it (but still, an everyday position player for a SP?).

The other factor is this lockout. How many years of control do they have now? The second question is how many years of control do they have left starting on opening day 2027 or 2028? And do you plan to extend one (Burleson or Donovan) before then.

If you get to the trade deadline 2026 and the team looks years away from contending, and if they are still hesitant to make longterm commitments (even extensions to arb players), that's where you might entertain a trade. Would be tough though.

For me, you have to have a core of solid players to build around. The Pirates are never good because they "cash in" on the majority of their prospects who turn out good (or even decent).
I wouldn't trade Donovan or Burleson, unless you somehow can get same/better value starting pitching.
Like you said, though: Noot and Gorman are expendable.

I agree. And in the big picture for those who want to trade all of these guys, have they sat down and actually thought about what the team we put on the field would actually look like minus all these players (noot, Gorman, Burleson, and Donny). It would be a very thin team. Wetherholt can't play all 9 positions. Need a core like you say. Donovan and Burleson should be considered part of it.

reson8 wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 07:47 am We desperately need at least one Carp/Waino type at the top of the rotation. But guys with that level of potential are going to command JJW in return. Donny, Noot, Burly or Gorman won't get it done and JJW might not by himself. Young pitching is the most valuable commodity in MLB.

Signing a 30+ yr old vet to a LTC won't happen, at least right now. The owners seem to think they can get a cap in the next contract, but that won't come without a floor that the small market teams won't accept. But I don't see the team going all in on big deals (if ever) at this point until a new agreement is in place.

Hopefully Bloom can spot a vet coming off an injury that will come on a 1 yr deal.

We got Waino, Marquis, and Burger King for JD Drew and Eli Marrero

We got Carp as a scrap heap free agent, dealing with multiple labrum and elbow issues.

Trade two of Donovan/Burly/Noot/Gormam for pitching that can help in 2027. Trade the ones you get the most return for, which I would guess will be Donny and Noot.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 14:22 pm Burleson - RF, LF, 1B
Noot - CF, RF, LF
Gorman - 3B, 2B
Donny - 2B, 3B, LF, RF
JJW - 2B, SS, 3B
Scott - CF
Church - OF
Crooks (Potentially) - C

Depending on where you play Donny, you either have a logjam of corner OF or a logjam 2B/3B.

I think you need to trade 2 of the 3 of Donny, Burly, Noot. Who would you trade? Who brings back the better return?

Burly - Pro is his bat. Con is his defense
Donny - Pro is his versatility. I'm not sure there is much of a Con. He is who he is.
Noot - Pro is his on-base ability and his rounded game. Con is his streakiness and inability to stay healthy.

I am probably shopping Noot and Burly. I am keeping Donny unless I am blown away by his all-around offensive/defensive flexibility, as well as his leadership.

If I’m Bloom, I’m targeting high upside MiLB starting pitching. I would trade anyone on the MLB roster not named Winn to get it.