Pallante Strikes Again

[Talkin' Baseball]

He's had 55 starts at this level. Still cannot throw strikes often enough. Falls behind, 2-0, 3-0,-3-1 to way too many hitters. Has to go to FB and ends up getting torched. Will be 27 next month. He'll stay in the rotation the rest of this season as long as he's healthy. Maybe he figures it out. Next spring there will be more competition for a rotation spot (I'm making a big assumption that Bloom is sharper than POBO) and he may find himself back in Memphis or DFA.

Unlike most Pallante pitches, this is pretty much on target.

Tied with Fedde for least pleasant starting pitcher to watch since Dakota Hudson.

He will hopefully be competing for the 5th rotation spot in ST next year... I'd guess they make him 6th starter/swing man if he doesn't earn the spot.

I hope they don't make his the 6th starter. I hope they make him available. He has some trade value. If the Cardinals keep him, they will try to use him. Look at the numbers- he's Miles Mikolas without the contract. Is that okay?

[sikeston bulldog2]

Pallante's September needs to be a lot better for me to be comfortable with him in the rotation. If he still blows, then I don't count on him to be more than a spot starter type.

I think he is running into uncharted territory. I’m hoping just to tread water.

[3dender]

He's had 55 starts at this level. Still cannot throw strikes often enough. Falls behind, 2-0, 3-0,-3-1 to way too many hitters. Has to go to FB and ends up getting torched. Will be 27 next month. He'll stay in the rotation the rest of this season as long as he's healthy. Maybe he figures it out. Next spring there will be more competition for a rotation spot (I'm making a big assumption that Bloom is sharper than POBO) and he may find himself back in Memphis or DFA.

Unlike most Pallante pitches, this is pretty much on target.

Tied with Fedde for least pleasant starting pitcher to watch since Dakota Hudson.

He will hopefully be competing for the 5th rotation spot in ST next year... I'd guess they make him 6th starter/swing man if he doesn't earn the spot.

I hope they don't make his the 6th starter. I hope they make him available. He has some trade value. If the Cardinals keep him, they will try to use him. Look at the numbers- he's Miles Mikolas without the contract. Is that okay?

The contract is a huge difference though... $16M this year and probably $15M next year.

About $3M for a 5th/6th starter who gives up 4-5 runs over 5-6 innings is not terrible value. The known quantity factor is worth something which a rando AAAA guy can't really give you.

[VegasVinny]

Pallante is part of the reason my expectations for the 2026 and 2027 Cardinals are in the cellar.

A good team can have one Pallante in the rotation making 32 starts per year. A good team cannot have three Pallantes in the rotation, which is what the Cardinals have this year. Outside of Gray, the rotation can't miss bats and that's part of why we've had three guys taking the ball every fifth day with ERAs around 5.00. That's embarrassing.

Once he arrives, Mathews may work himself into that decent category where Liberatore sits, but expecting Quinn to be a No. 2 as a rookie is a fool's errand. Roby is shelved for 2026. Any reasonable expectations for him in 2027 should be tempered at best. We've been dreaming on Hence for three years. The fact is there simply isn't enough pitching talent close to the majors within the org right now and the team has flat out said they're not going to acquire it in the free agent market this offseason or next.

It leaves one glimmer of hope for respectability for 2026 and 2027: Bloom fixes the roster crunch and is able to pull rabbits out of hats when trading the Gormans, Donovans, Nootbaars, or whomever he decides to offset. The elixir is not within the St. Louis Cardinals organization today.

[3dender]

Pallante is part of the reason my expectations for the 2026 and 2027 Cardinals are in the cellar.

A good team can have one Pallante in the rotation making 32 starts per year. A good team cannot have three Pallantes in the rotation, which is what the Cardinals have this year. Outside of Gray, the rotation can't miss bats and that's part of why we've had three guys taking the ball every fifth day with ERAs around 5.00. That's embarrassing.

Once he arrives, Mathews may work himself into that decent category where Liberatore sits, but expecting Quinn to be a No. 2 as a rookie is a fool's errand. Roby is shelved for 2026. Any reasonable expectations for him in 2027 should be tempered at best. We've been dreaming on Hence for three years. The fact is there simply isn't enough pitching talent close to the majors within the org right now and the team has flat out said they're not going to acquire it in the free agent market this offseason or next.

It leaves one glimmer of hope for respectability for 2026 and 2027: Bloom fixes the roster crunch and is able to pull rabbits out of hats when trading the Gormans, Donovans, Nootbaars, or whomever he decides to offset. The elixir is not within the St. Louis Cardinals organization today.

Good analysis. The rotation right now, in order of effectiveness, is:

Gray
Liberatore/McGreevy
Pallante

They need to acquire at least two pitchers, ideally someone who slots in after Gray, and another who is at the Lib/McGreevy level.

The #2 can only be acquired via trade, which will be tough but I think possible with a big enough package centering around one of Donny/Noot/Burly/Gorman. The #4/5 will almost certainly be a FA acquisition a la Gibson/Lynn in 2024. That will leave the 2026 rotation as:

Gray
Trade acquisition
Lib/McGreevy
FA
Pallante 6th starter
Mathews 7th starter

2027 rotation is:

Trade acquisition
(Possible FA acquisition?)
Lib
McGreevy
Mathews/Roby/Hjerpe/Pallante/?

[Talkin' Baseball]

Pallante is part of the reason my expectations for the 2026 and 2027 Cardinals are in the cellar.

A good team can have one Pallante in the rotation making 32 starts per year. A good team cannot have three Pallantes in the rotation, which is what the Cardinals have this year. Outside of Gray, the rotation can't miss bats and that's part of why we've had three guys taking the ball every fifth day with ERAs around 5.00. That's embarrassing.

Once he arrives, Mathews may work himself into that decent category where Liberatore sits, but expecting Quinn to be a No. 2 as a rookie is a fool's errand. Roby is shelved for 2026. Any reasonable expectations for him in 2027 should be tempered at best. We've been dreaming on Hence for three years. The fact is there simply isn't enough pitching talent close to the majors within the org right now and the team has flat out said they're not going to acquire it in the free agent market this offseason or next.

It leaves one glimmer of hope for respectability for 2026 and 2027: Bloom fixes the roster crunch and is able to pull rabbits out of hats when trading the Gormans, Donovans, Nootbaars, or whomever he decides to offset. The elixir is not within the St. Louis Cardinals organization today.

Good analysis. The rotation right now, in order of effectiveness, is:

Gray
Liberatore/McGreevy
Pallante

They need to acquire at least two pitchers, ideally someone who slots in after Gray, and another who is at the Lib/McGreevy level.

The #2 can only be acquired via trade, which will be tough but I think possible with a big enough package centering around one of Donny/Noot/Burly/Gorman. The #4/5 will almost certainly be a FA acquisition a la Gibson/Lynn in 2024. That will leave the 2026 rotation as:

Gray
Trade acquisition
Lib/McGreevy
FA
Pallante 6th starter
Mathews 7th starter

2027 rotation is:

Trade acquisition
(Possible FA acquisition?)
Lib
McGreevy
Mathews/Roby/Hjerpe/Pallante/?

I am open to being pleasantly surprised by what we can acquire for the guys being mentioned. At some point in 2026 Brycen Mautz, Ixan Henderson, and Liam Doyle could pitch their way into the conversation. I agree with your idea of a #4-5 FA starter on a one year deal to help bridge the gap. (Quintana-type) It won't happen all at once, but I see the possibility of things getting better going forward. That wouldn't include Pallante in the conversation.

[RichieRichSTL]

He's had 55 starts at this level. Still cannot throw strikes often enough. Falls behind, 2-0, 3-0,-3-1 to way too many hitters. Has to go to FB and ends up getting torched. Will be 27 next month. He'll stay in the rotation the rest of this season as long as he's healthy. Maybe he figures it out. Next spring there will be more competition for a rotation spot (I'm making a big assumption that Bloom is sharper than POBO) and he may find himself back in Memphis or DFA.

Unlike most Pallante pitches, this is pretty much on target.

Tied with Fedde for least pleasant starting pitcher to watch since Dakota Hudson.

He will hopefully be competing for the 5th rotation spot in ST next year... I'd guess they make him 6th starter/swing man if he doesn't earn the spot.

I hope they don't make his the 6th starter. I hope they make him available. He has some trade value. If the Cardinals keep him, they will try to use him. Look at the numbers- he's Miles Mikolas without the contract. Is that okay?

The contract is a huge difference though... $16M this year and probably $15M next year.

About $3M for a 5th/6th starter who gives up 4-5 runs over 5-6 innings is not terrible value. The known quantity factor is worth something which a rando AAAA guy can't really give you.

Mikolas is an example of everything that was wrong with Mo. Overpaid, delivers mediocre results with the money he's given, deflects from responsibility, is all talk, etc.

Mikolas has had 2 good years, the rest were either injured, meh or downright innings eating awful. At least with Pallente you get affordable innings eating with a degree of humility.

[Wattage]

He just sucks 5.1 innings 8H 5ER. I wish they would shut him down for the season and call someone up!

Pallante has pitched way more innings than he ever has in his career. Especially after being in bullpen last few seasons. Its possible his fading is simplely not conditioned ywt for long season. If thats the case, its importa t for him to push himself as long as he isnt causing injury to be more ready for it in future years.

[3dender]

I am open to being pleasantly surprised by what we can acquire for the guys being mentioned. At some point in 2026 Brycen Mautz, Ixan Henderson, and Liam Doyle could pitch their way into the conversation. I agree with your idea of a #4-5 FA starter on a one year deal to help bridge the gap. (Quintana-type) It won't happen all at once, but I see the possibility of things getting better going forward. That wouldn't include Pallante in the conversation.

If they go the route I just outlined I think they have a good chance of being better than this year. On the pitching side they will benefit a ton just from not having 60% of the rotation being Mikolas/Fedde/Pallante. This plan depends on them acquiring two pitchers though (one trade and one FA), so if they don't do that then all bets are off. Even if they acquire a Lib/McGreevy type via trade the starting staff should still be better than this year.

On the hitting side they have known quantities of Donovan, Noot, Winn, Contreras, Burleson, Catcher, Gorman and probably Herrera. I'd even bet on Winn and Gorman to improve moderately. I'd expect Wetherholt to hold his own as well as at least a league average bat. Scott and Church are probably tracking to be .650-.700 OPS types, anything else would be a bonus.

A lot depends on which bats they trade this offseason -- which I'd be shocked if they don't trade any of Donovan/Noot/Burly/Gorman. But as is, this group is set up to score at least as many runs as this season, if not more.

1B Contreras
3B Gorman/JJ
SS Winn
2B JJ/Donovan
C - .600-.700 OPS
CF .600-.700 OPS
LF Burly/Donovan/Herrera
RF Noot (and hopefully Walker eventually after he makes the adjustments at AAA)
DH Herrera/Burly/Gorman

Bench: Saggese, Scott/Church, Catcher, ??? (Blaze Jordan?)

It's definitely not a juggernaut offense but it's at least as productive as this year's, and probably more.

[Wattage]

9.26 ERA in August (3 starts)

6.31 since the beginning of July, but his first start in Juy was outstanding, 7 innings of 1-hit shutout ball. Since that start his ERA is 7.60. That's over 7 starts.

He needs some time out of the rotation to get himself right. I don't know who would step up. Hell, put Curtis Taylor on the 40-man and bring him up.

Pallante is almost past his career high in innings pitched and while hes thrown a little more last season if you include minors, that was spread out including september( and he faded his last few starts last season too. Being in the bullpen for several years doesnt leave him prepared to start for a full season. Im hoping thats all this is and he will get better at lasting with more experience and building more stamina

[Cusecards]

In fairness to Pallante his career ERA entering this season was 3.78.
And looking at the breakdown it was lower as a starter.
I would have classified him as a solid #5 SP.
Now...his ERA is just over 5.00 entirely as a SP.
Based on that and how he finishes in September his days as a member of the rotation are certainly in question.
Right now you figure to have Gray/Libby/McGreevy pencilled in for ST 2026.
How they fill out that rotation is probably the biggest question of the offseason.
Pallante could very well be in the BP.

[blackinkbiz]

That disastrous July put all questions of competing to rest. They clearly have no concerns about winning or losing this season, regardless of what it does to fan and thus attendance morale. Attendance morale ... not sure that's a thing.

[ilcubuffs]

Competent MLB:

Manager
Pitching Coach
Asst Pitching Coaches
Catchers

would go along way. Until this FUBAR is cleared up, who knows what you have in Pallante - all we know is it is right now buttttt ugly.

[Carp4Cy]

He just sucks 5.1 innings 8H 5ER. I wish they would shut him down for the season and call someone up!

Who? The throwers in Memphis all suck more than Pallante. Jackass Johnny Mo has decided the top guys (Wetherholt and Matthews) aren't coming up.

I don't think they should bring up either. Wetherholt can't fix the bleeding and Matthews isn't ready. neither must be protected for Rule 5, but early promotion will force Rule 5 losses in December; too many to protect.

there's too many because we overvalue JAGs that don't NEED protection. Teams should move on from guys like Alcala, Fermin, Roycroft, Venisizano, Hampson, Siani. There's plenty of room to protect the guys we really NEED to keep.

No reason to horde junk instead of getting useful experience for future core players.

[hugeCardfan]

He just sucks 5.1 innings 8H 5ER. I wish they would shut him down for the season and call someone up!

Who? The throwers in Memphis all suck more than Pallante. Jackass Johnny Mo has decided the top guys (Wetherholt and Matthews) aren't coming up.

I don't think they should bring up either. Wetherholt can't fix the bleeding and Matthews isn't ready. neither must be protected for Rule 5, but early promotion will force Rule 5 losses in December; too many to protect.

there's too many because we overvalue JAGs that don't NEED protection. Teams should move on from guys like Alcala, Fermin, Roycroft, Venisizano, Hampson, Siani. There's plenty of room to protect the guys we really NEED to keep.

No reason to horde junk instead of getting useful experience for future core players.

That's simply not true. None of those guys will be protected. We will still be hard pressed to protect players we really don't want to lose.

[Carp4Cy]

He just sucks 5.1 innings 8H 5ER. I wish they would shut him down for the season and call someone up!

Who? The throwers in Memphis all suck more than Pallante. Jackass Johnny Mo has decided the top guys (Wetherholt and Matthews) aren't coming up.

I don't think they should bring up either. Wetherholt can't fix the bleeding and Matthews isn't ready. neither must be protected for Rule 5, but early promotion will force Rule 5 losses in December; too many to protect.

there's too many because we overvalue JAGs that don't NEED protection. Teams should move on from guys like Alcala, Fermin, Roycroft, Venisizano, Hampson, Siani. There's plenty of room to protect the guys we really NEED to keep.

No reason to horde junk instead of getting useful experience for future core players.

That's simply not true. None of those guys will be protected. We will still be hard pressed to protect players we really don't want to lose.

we have probably 10 guys coming off the 40 man when you include the above plus Mikolas, and potential trades or nontenders of Nado, Walker, Noot, Koperniak, and one of Pozo/Pages as well as potential minor league trades. Yes it requires decisions but that's why the 40 man rules exist - to force decisions instead of hording.

But where is the list of players not on the 40 man who need to be added who we also can't possibly afford to maybe lose even one of? I don't think its as long or as talented as it is being made out to be.