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Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
Hmm....let's look at 2017:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
Yeah, and Matheny had nothing to do with them doing so well. Sure. A former respected major league multiple Gold Glove winner. By the way, how have many of those players done since, when playing for a different manager? Fowler?ecleme22 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 10:48 amHmm....let's look at 2017:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
C-Molina: .751 OPS, 18 HR, 82 RBIs
1B-Carp: .835 OPS, 23 HR, 69 RBIs
2B-Wong: .788 OPS
SS-DeJong: .857 OPS, 25 HR, 65 RBIs (2nd in ROY)
3B-Gyorko: .813 OPS, 20 HR, 67 RBIs
LF-Pham: .931 OPS, 23 HR, 73 RBIs (11th in MVP)
CF-Fowler: .851 OPS, 18 HR, 64 RBIs
RF1-Piscotty: .708 OPS, 9 HR, 39 RBIs
RF2-Grichuk: .758 OPS, 22 HR, 59 RBIs
RF3-Martinez: .897 OPS, 14 HR, 46 RBIs.
Yeah, that ol' 2017 team had nuthin'! LOL
I thought you said they had little talent in 2017.Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:01 amYeah, and Matheny had nothing to do with them doing so well. Sure. A former respected major league multiple Gold Glove winner. By the way, how have many of those players done since, when playing for a different manager? Fowler?ecleme22 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 10:48 amHmm....let's look at 2017:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
C-Molina: .751 OPS, 18 HR, 82 RBIs
1B-Carp: .835 OPS, 23 HR, 69 RBIs
2B-Wong: .788 OPS
SS-DeJong: .857 OPS, 25 HR, 65 RBIs (2nd in ROY)
3B-Gyorko: .813 OPS, 20 HR, 67 RBIs
LF-Pham: .931 OPS, 23 HR, 73 RBIs (11th in MVP)
CF-Fowler: .851 OPS, 18 HR, 64 RBIs
RF1-Piscotty: .708 OPS, 9 HR, 39 RBIs
RF2-Grichuk: .758 OPS, 22 HR, 59 RBIs
RF3-Martinez: .897 OPS, 14 HR, 46 RBIs.
Yeah, that ol' 2017 team had nuthin'! LOL
Piscotty? Grichuk? Martinez? Gyorko? DeJong?
2017 Cardinals:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
Matheny wasn’t the problemBomber1 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:24 amGee if we only had Matheny as manager this team would be WS bound.ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:07 am https://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance/_/year/2017
His last full year as manager.
Enjoy the current mess. Make sure to pay the increased price for season tickets next year so can enjoy the 2026 mess.
And how has that talent done under other managers?ecleme22 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:05 amI thought you said they had little talent in 2017.Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:01 amYeah, and Matheny had nothing to do with them doing so well. Sure. A former respected major league multiple Gold Glove winner. By the way, how have many of those players done since, when playing for a different manager? Fowler?ecleme22 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 10:48 amHmm....let's look at 2017:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
C-Molina: .751 OPS, 18 HR, 82 RBIs
1B-Carp: .835 OPS, 23 HR, 69 RBIs
2B-Wong: .788 OPS
SS-DeJong: .857 OPS, 25 HR, 65 RBIs (2nd in ROY)
3B-Gyorko: .813 OPS, 20 HR, 67 RBIs
LF-Pham: .931 OPS, 23 HR, 73 RBIs (11th in MVP)
CF-Fowler: .851 OPS, 18 HR, 64 RBIs
RF1-Piscotty: .708 OPS, 9 HR, 39 RBIs
RF2-Grichuk: .758 OPS, 22 HR, 59 RBIs
RF3-Martinez: .897 OPS, 14 HR, 46 RBIs.
Yeah, that ol' 2017 team had nuthin'! LOL
Piscotty? Grichuk? Martinez? Gyorko? DeJong?
They had a lot of offensive talent.
Careful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:21 am2017 Cardinals:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79
NY is full of himself. My facts are that MM had a better winning percentage than most former Cardinal managers, including Tony, Whitey, Joe, etc. And don’t believe those who say he was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce.rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:53 amCareful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:21 am2017 Cardinals:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79
He was handed a pretty darn good team and that's not bull.Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:58 amNY is full of himself. My facts are that MM had a better winning percentage than most former Cardinal managers, including Tony, Whitey, Joe, etc. And don’t believe those who say he was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce.rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:53 amCareful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:21 am2017 Cardinals:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79
That’s bull.
M. Matheny/Oli are the two worst Cardinals managers of all time.Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:58 amNY is full of himself. My facts are that MM had a better winning percentage than most former Cardinal managers, including Tony, Whitey, Joe, etc. And don’t believe those who say he was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce.rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:53 amCareful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:21 am2017 Cardinals:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79
That’s bull.
Generally, I don’t have strong views on Matheny one way or the other, though I didn’t think he was a particularly strong in-game manager (but that’s only one part of the job). But this notion that he somehow made chicken salad out of chicken-s just isn’t supported by the evidence, IMO.rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:53 amCareful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 11:21 am2017 Cardinals:Cranny wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:46 amMike did very well with the talent he had….3dender wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:30 am Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.
But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79