For the Matheny haters

[Absolut]

I miss the days Matheny kept ticket prices low.

[sdaltons]

I have never seen anyone claim that Mo didn't hamstring Matheny.

Mo never knew how to build a roster and every manager after Tony suffered because of it. And that includes Matheny.

However Mo also hamstrung the players he did bring in by not providing them with qualified managers and coaches. And that also includes Matheny.

Both things can be true.

[rockondlouie]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Matheny inherited a WS winning Rolls Royce and he drove it over the cliff, pathetic manager.

Yadi
Waino
Lynn
Lohse
J. Garcia
Motte
Holliday
Beltran
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Furcal
M. Carp

[smilinjoefission]

Cards managers have gotten progressively worse since LaRussa.

[ecleme22]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Hmm....let's look at 2017:

C-Molina: .751 OPS, 18 HR, 82 RBIs
1B-Carp: .835 OPS, 23 HR, 69 RBIs
2B-Wong: .788 OPS
SS-DeJong: .857 OPS, 25 HR, 65 RBIs (2nd in ROY)
3B-Gyorko: .813 OPS, 20 HR, 67 RBIs
LF-Pham: .931 OPS, 23 HR, 73 RBIs (11th in MVP)
CF-Fowler: .851 OPS, 18 HR, 64 RBIs
RF1-Piscotty: .708 OPS, 9 HR, 39 RBIs
RF2-Grichuk: .758 OPS, 22 HR, 59 RBIs
RF3-Martinez: .897 OPS, 14 HR, 46 RBIs.

Yeah, that ol' 2017 team had nuthin'! LOL

[Cranny]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Hmm....let's look at 2017:

C-Molina: .751 OPS, 18 HR, 82 RBIs
1B-Carp: .835 OPS, 23 HR, 69 RBIs
2B-Wong: .788 OPS
SS-DeJong: .857 OPS, 25 HR, 65 RBIs (2nd in ROY)
3B-Gyorko: .813 OPS, 20 HR, 67 RBIs
LF-Pham: .931 OPS, 23 HR, 73 RBIs (11th in MVP)
CF-Fowler: .851 OPS, 18 HR, 64 RBIs
RF1-Piscotty: .708 OPS, 9 HR, 39 RBIs
RF2-Grichuk: .758 OPS, 22 HR, 59 RBIs
RF3-Martinez: .897 OPS, 14 HR, 46 RBIs.

Yeah, that ol' 2017 team had nuthin'! LOL

Yeah, and Matheny had nothing to do with them doing so well. Sure. A former respected major league multiple Gold Glove winner. By the way, how have many of those players done since, when playing for a different manager? Fowler?
Piscotty? Grichuk? Martinez? Gyorko? DeJong?

[ecleme22]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Hmm....let's look at 2017:

C-Molina: .751 OPS, 18 HR, 82 RBIs
1B-Carp: .835 OPS, 23 HR, 69 RBIs
2B-Wong: .788 OPS
SS-DeJong: .857 OPS, 25 HR, 65 RBIs (2nd in ROY)
3B-Gyorko: .813 OPS, 20 HR, 67 RBIs
LF-Pham: .931 OPS, 23 HR, 73 RBIs (11th in MVP)
CF-Fowler: .851 OPS, 18 HR, 64 RBIs
RF1-Piscotty: .708 OPS, 9 HR, 39 RBIs
RF2-Grichuk: .758 OPS, 22 HR, 59 RBIs
RF3-Martinez: .897 OPS, 14 HR, 46 RBIs.

Yeah, that ol' 2017 team had nuthin'! LOL

Yeah, and Matheny had nothing to do with them doing so well. Sure. A former respected major league multiple Gold Glove winner. By the way, how have many of those players done since, when playing for a different manager? Fowler?
Piscotty? Grichuk? Martinez? Gyorko? DeJong?

I thought you said they had little talent in 2017.

They had a lot of offensive talent.

[NYCardsFan]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

2017 Cardinals:
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

I remember Matheny using Moss late in the season when he was almost hitless in September and refusing to try other options, like he expected the guy was going to snap out of it any day. He never did. My memory of Mike managing. That and killing his bullpen guys by overuse. Paint by numbers much worse than Oli. They had a lot of close games and he could not learn to trust his back end of the bullpen.

[An Old Friend]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance/_/year/2017

His last full year as manager.

Enjoy the current mess. Make sure to pay the increased price for season tickets next year so can enjoy the 2026 mess.

Gee if we only had Matheny as manager this team would be WS bound.

Matheny wasn’t the problem

[Cranny]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

Hmm....let's look at 2017:

C-Molina: .751 OPS, 18 HR, 82 RBIs
1B-Carp: .835 OPS, 23 HR, 69 RBIs
2B-Wong: .788 OPS
SS-DeJong: .857 OPS, 25 HR, 65 RBIs (2nd in ROY)
3B-Gyorko: .813 OPS, 20 HR, 67 RBIs
LF-Pham: .931 OPS, 23 HR, 73 RBIs (11th in MVP)
CF-Fowler: .851 OPS, 18 HR, 64 RBIs
RF1-Piscotty: .708 OPS, 9 HR, 39 RBIs
RF2-Grichuk: .758 OPS, 22 HR, 59 RBIs
RF3-Martinez: .897 OPS, 14 HR, 46 RBIs.

Yeah, that ol' 2017 team had nuthin'! LOL

Yeah, and Matheny had nothing to do with them doing so well. Sure. A former respected major league multiple Gold Glove winner. By the way, how have many of those players done since, when playing for a different manager? Fowler?
Piscotty? Grichuk? Martinez? Gyorko? DeJong?

I thought you said they had little talent in 2017.

They had a lot of offensive talent.

And how has that talent done under other managers?

[rockondlouie]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

2017 Cardinals:
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79

Careful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.

[Cranny]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

2017 Cardinals:
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79

Careful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.

NY is full of himself. My facts are that MM had a better winning percentage than most former Cardinal managers, including Tony, Whitey, Joe, etc. And don’t believe those who say he was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce.
That’s bull.

[OldRed]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

2017 Cardinals:
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79

Careful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.

NY is full of himself. My facts are that MM had a better winning percentage than most former Cardinal managers, including Tony, Whitey, Joe, etc. And don’t believe those who say he was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce.
That’s bull.

He was handed a pretty darn good team and that's not bull.

[rockondlouie]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

2017 Cardinals:
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79

Careful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.

NY is full of himself. My facts are that MM had a better winning percentage than most former Cardinal managers, including Tony, Whitey, Joe, etc. And don’t believe those who say he was handed the keys to a Rolls Royce.
That’s bull.

M. Matheny/Oli are the two worst Cardinals managers of all time.

Matheny was handed the keys to a Rolls and drove it off the cliff.

With each year of his reign of terror his teams went down in playoff rounds played year after year.

Like Oli, Mike was a disaster and only hired to be Mo's puppet.

(BTW, for you to even mention him along Hall of Fame Managers Whitey, TLR and Torre cost you any credibility you ever had)

[NYCardsFan]

Matheny was a really dumb manager... high chance of CTE I'd guess from all the catcher collisions.

But the problems with the team always went deeper than Matheny. And Cards still probably may have been able to win more in the playoffs with a better manager than Matheny.

Mike did very well with the talent he had….
Gyorko, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler, and Pham in 2017?

2017 Cardinals:
34.9/40.7 bWAR/fWAR
761 runs scored, 705 runs allowed, +56 run differential
x-W/L: 87-75
Actual W/L: 83-79

Careful hitting cranny w/facts NYCF, they're foreign to his position.

Generally, I don’t have strong views on Matheny one way or the other, though I didn’t think he was a particularly strong in-game manager (but that’s only one part of the job). But this notion that he somehow made chicken salad out of chicken-s just isn’t supported by the evidence, IMO.