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moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:35 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:31 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:19 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 08:56 am No need to lock anyone up contractually, at this point.

Winn has had back issues and a barking knee. Could end up with Tommy John too...

why do you say that?

Who would you lock up and why? Who says the player takes the deal?

Are you not aware he has had back issues? Have you not seen where he was saying his knee is barking?

All this at age 23. SS can take its toll and if he continues making max throws, Tommy John could also rear it's head

I know he's had some back and knee issues, but not so bad he hasn't been able to play thru them for the most part. where is the TJ coming from? have heard nothing about arm issues

I said it's a possibility from making continuous max throws...

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:37 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:35 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:31 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:19 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 08:56 am No need to lock anyone up contractually, at this point.

Winn has had back issues and a barking knee. Could end up with Tommy John too...

why do you say that?

Who would you lock up and why? Who says the player takes the deal?

Are you not aware he has had back issues? Have you not seen where he was saying his knee is barking?

All this at age 23. SS can take its toll and if he continues making max throws, Tommy John could also rear it's head

I know he's had some back and knee issues, but not so bad he hasn't been able to play thru them for the most part. where is the TJ coming from? have heard nothing about arm issues

I said it's a possibility from making continuous max throws...

Lol, man you hate Winn. Just making stuff up.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:36 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:31 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:29 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:22 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:19 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 08:56 am No need to lock anyone up contractually, at this point.

Winn has had back issues and a barking knee. Could end up with Tommy John too...

why do you say that?

Scouty hates Winn.

Yes I hate Winn!

Yep. Always contributing to Winn convos with [shirt] like the above.

Scouty hates certain players, and is always shoehorning those feelings in convos.

Who would you lock up and why? Can you guarantee the payer takes it?

Has he had back issues? Did he say his knee is barking? Can constant max throws from your SS, end up with possible Tommy John?

Has his hitting gotten better this year or declined? Is he a base stealer?

No one on the Cards needs to be locked up.

But I'm sorry you see clarity as hatred. LoL. I don't hate a player. Teams like the Scrubs, sure. A player...LoL, no.

You keep being you and wear rose colored glasses and claim hatred for your wet dream player on the Cards if someone points out concerns.

CardsTalk advanced search Winn and scoutyjones2:

search.php?keywords=Winn&terms=all&auth ... mit=Search


Scouty has this weird negative obsession with Winn…

Traditionally you offer extensions to buy out a couple of remaining Arb years and cover the first few years of potential free agency.
The only player I see approaching that juncture is Donovan who has three Arb years starting in 2026.
Too soon for Winn/Herrera and WAY too soon for JJ.

No need to rush on Winn,

wait until after 2026 season.

JJW is the one they'll want to lock up earlier if he's the hitter most think he will be.

Winn and JJ.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 10:58 am Winn and JJ.

agree. Walker still gets one more 'wait and see' season

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:48 am Traditionally you offer extensions to buy out a couple of remaining Arb years and cover the first few years of potential free agency.
The only player I see approaching that juncture is Donovan who has three Arb years starting in 2026.
Too soon for Winn/Herrera and WAY too soon for JJ.

Donovan will have 2 more arb years.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 11:02 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:48 am Traditionally you offer extensions to buy out a couple of remaining Arb years and cover the first few years of potential free agency.
The only player I see approaching that juncture is Donovan who has three Arb years starting in 2026.
Too soon for Winn/Herrera and WAY too soon for JJ.

Donovan will have 2 more arb years.

Thank you sir you are correct.
Potential FA in 2028.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 11:02 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:48 am Traditionally you offer extensions to buy out a couple of remaining Arb years and cover the first few years of potential free agency.
The only player I see approaching that juncture is Donovan who has three Arb years starting in 2026.
Too soon for Winn/Herrera and WAY too soon for JJ.

Donovan will have 2 more arb years.

will start next season at 29 yrs old. so a 5 yr extension? don't think I'd go more than that

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 11:06 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 11:02 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:48 am Traditionally you offer extensions to buy out a couple of remaining Arb years and cover the first few years of potential free agency.
The only player I see approaching that juncture is Donovan who has three Arb years starting in 2026.
Too soon for Winn/Herrera and WAY too soon for JJ.

Donovan will have 2 more arb years.

Thank you sir you are correct.
Potential FA in 2028.

In 2025 (this year ), Donovan requested $3.3 M in arbitration .. Cardinals submitted $2.85 M figure .. Arbitor selected team figure . So Donnie got $2.85 M and lost almost $500,000 . Ouch !

Cardinals should not lock up anyone they developed internally. JJW appears to have developed himself with his own talents, so maybe him if he has a strong first year or two.

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 11:11 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 11:02 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:48 am Traditionally you offer extensions to buy out a couple of remaining Arb years and cover the first few years of potential free agency.
The only player I see approaching that juncture is Donovan who has three Arb years starting in 2026.
Too soon for Winn/Herrera and WAY too soon for JJ.

Donovan will have 2 more arb years.

will start next season at 29 yrs old. so a 5 yr extension? don't think I'd go more than that

I think Donny's dealt this winter (also possibly Noot or Burleson).

Cusecards wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:48 am Traditionally you offer extensions to buy out a couple of remaining Arb years and cover the first few years of potential free agency.
The only player I see approaching that juncture is Donovan who has three Arb years starting in 2026.
Too soon for Winn/Herrera and WAY too soon for JJ.

The WAY to soon for JJ is how one looks at the risk/reward for locking up a kid long term.
Was it WAY to soon for Brewer GM Matt Arnold ( 2024 Exec. of the Year ) to lock up Jackson Chourio .

The 20 year old signed this long term .
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/player/_/id ... on-chourio

Not only did the Brewers buy out all his arb years and first two years of Free Agency (years 7 & 8 ) , the Brewers also tacked on 2 Team Option years for years 9 and 10 . So if they want , they can have him locked up thru year 2034 . Those last two years pay Chourio $25 M for each year . (The brewers can buy out either for $2 M ) .
That $25 M at the very end could look like peanuts. For Chourio, he averages $10+M per year for the whole deal . So more guaranteed $$ in the earilier years but may be much less on the backend . note: there are bonuses if he makes MVP

Only 2 years into this deal , the Brewers are looking pretty good for this deal . For a small market team to have this kid for 10 years may be spectacular . There is risk but also reward . Arnold is taking the risk and owner Attanasio too . However, a player of Chourio's caliber (if he played well ) would have flown the coup from Milwaukee after year 6 free agency . They now could have him for 10 years or walk away for $2M buyout after 8 years.

The Brewers signed Chourio to 8 years -$82 M (not counting team option years ) . This year the Boston Red Sox wanted to see their hot shot rookiekid Roman Anthony play in some games. After a month ?, they signed him to a 8 yr - $130 M deal . So looking back at Brewer Chourio deal , wow almost $50M less for Brewers signing him compared to Anthony .

Wondering if Bloom has the stomach and DeWitt to make a move like those two teams for a JJ Wetherholt . Also even if offered, JJ would have to decide if the higher guaranteed $$ earlier is worth the possible loss of bigger $$ down the road if he does become a big star. Decisions ! Decisions ! Both ways . for a team and for the player

PS to my previous post (as no longer can edit )
The Chourio deal that included 2 team option years for Years 9 and 10 could take his deal thru his age 30 (as he was 20 years old when he signed it ) .
In JJ's case, he turns 23 in September so a long term deal for him would likely be 8 years max . as that would be thru age 31 . If you lock him up for 10 years , that is thru age 33 and a bit iffy as he could be starting his decline . The starting age of these long term deals is important.

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 07:57 am My gut says Winn but the hype around JJ is fierce. Maybe a dark horse?

That is an extremely relevant question.
Super Slo Mo made some massive extension blunders with the likes of Martinez, DeJong, and Carpenter (each of which I alone opposed and accurately predicted would backfire) and those mistakes scarred him deeply - rendering him timid, cautious, and terrified of making similar mistake.
Rather than learn from his errors and finding trusted advisors to guide him in making correct decisions moving forward, he simply ran and hid from extension possibilities from that point on.
Significant part of the TOXIC CULTURE he created.
It will indeed be very interesting - and revealing - to see how "Chaim-Going-To-Extend-the Right-Guys" Bloom makes such decisions moving forward.