STLtoday.com

cardstatman wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025 23:28 pm July 31, 2015: The Milwaukee Brewers traded Jonathan Broxton and cash to the St. Louis Cardinals for Malik "magic" Collymore (minors). Before he left, Collymore stole the Cardinals pixie dust. The Cards had changed his password but Jeff Luhnow's old password still worked.

Ever since then, the magic has been in Milwaukee instead of St Louis.

What happened after July 31, 2015?

1. Lynn was great from April trough July but his UCL gave up the ghost in August.
   He toughed out rest of the season eating innings by throwing nothing but fastballs. He had TJ surgery immediately after Cards were eliminated.
2. Wacha hit a wall and was horrible in September after a stellar April to August.
   After his horrific September, he started and lost game 3 because well, there was no one else.
3. Martinez was suddenly shut down on Sept 25 after getting only one out.
   One week before the playoffs, he suddenly was no longer an option.
4. Garcia was fine but he got very sick on the day of his game 2 playoff start.
   He pitched anyway because there were no other options and he got bombed which triggered the team's inevitable playoff collapse.
5. Wainwright could not quite get stretched out in time to be a starter in the playoffs.
6. Lackey was the Cardinals only functional starter in their playoff series against the Cubs.
   He won game 1 but lost game 4 pitching on 3 days rest because the team had no other options.

The "Curse of the Collymore" will go down in infamy in St Louis Missouri.

The Glory Is Gone (TV Series 2015–2018)

Brilliant

I bet he stole as much pixie dust as he could and then Broxton ate whatever was left.

Reminds me of the Ryan Tucker deal.

Early on, everyone was celebrating the Cubs for nabbing this great hitter. But then you turn to the Astros and realize they got like 3 cost controlled players for him who, I believe, are all currently contributing.

Notice how the Brewers didn't need to sign Adames to some "big contract and buy out arbitration!" One year deals. Adames left for FA. Life goes on.

blueboys69 wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 09:53 am As a current Wisconsin native since 2017 and one that married into a big Brewers family, it does feel like we've essentially switched places with them.

The only difference between them and the 2000-2015 Cardinals teams, is they have an inability to retain.

But, perhaps thats part of their eval/strategy.

It just feels like they don't miss.

The results have been similar, but their paths are completely different, the inability to retain aside.

Maybe that inability to retain raises their "puke point", to use a MO term. I'm not sure the Cardinals market would ever be able to stomach a move such as trading Hader, and essentially punting 2022, while very much in the race.

I'm sure there's a different vibe in Mil now, and fans would be willing to give the benefit of doubt, but at that time it was more of a WTF are they doing?!?!

Losing Willy Adames this offseason was another one.

Trading Aaron Civale for a struggling Andrew Vaughn. Having Ryas Hoskins get hurt and having Andrew Vaughn get promoted and then go off. (Brewers are 18-4 since he got there.)

It's trading for Quinn Priester on April 7th.

But it's more than that. It's watching the Cardinals complete one of their worst trades (Ozuna) and going in and snatching Yelich.

It's watching a team of Chourio, Collins, Durbin, Frelick, and Ortiz knowing that is what I'm sure they felt watching the Memphis Mafia help the Cardinals win in 2011.

It does feel like they stole our magic.

blueboys69 wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 10:55 am Losing Willy Adames this offseason was another one.

Trading Aaron Civale for a struggling Andrew Vaughn. Having Ryas Hoskins get hurt and having Andrew Vaughn get promoted and then go off. (Brewers are 18-4 since he got there.)

It's trading for Quinn Priester on April 7th.

But it's more than that. It's watching the Cardinals complete one of their worst trades (Ozuna) and going in and snatching Yelich.

It's watching a team of Chourio, Collins, Durbin, Frelick, and Ortiz knowing that is what I'm sure they felt watching the Memphis Mafia help the Cardinals win in 2011.

It does feel like they stole our magic.

It's not magic. The Cardinals under Jockette and LaRussa made moves to build good teams. Once they got their system working it produced lots of good clubs. To LaRussa winning meant competing for a ring! Then Jockette and (later) LaRussa left and Mozilak and DeWitt started with their idea of being -- just good enough to compete for a playoff spot and sell season tickets. Few noticed the change at first because the team still did pretty well but that's when the decline started.

If you want to win, you have to make winning your priority. You can't make pleasing the season ticket holders your priority: You can't sign or acquire big name, overpriced, and over the hill performers just because it sells tickets and adds a win or two to a .500 club. You can't make retaining old (mostly used up) players a priority just because it helps season ticket sales. Molina, for example, was wildly overpaid in the last few years of his career. A smart team dedicated to winning would have let him walk. Same thing with fan favorite Wainwright.

The Brewers current management has it's priorities in order. The Cardinals do not. They're still trying to sell the idea that making the playoffs, even if you're a 83 win team, is competing for the WS. And we can't expect better because we're not a big market.

DeWitt is milking the franchise for all it's worth. If he can't make money winning titles, he'll make money reducing payroll. He sees all of us as suckers, and there's one born every minute; so even if you figure it out, he still wins.

I read a deep dive article on Athletic (paywall or I would post it) about Brewers today

Winning is their only priority, check your ego at door

They told Andrew Vaughn if you swing at strikes you play, if you don’t you will be released

Pat Murphy is a straight shooter with players. You play their way or you don’t play, it’s that simple. They take their walks, run the bases like bandits.

Very selfless hungry players who want to win and know the standard expected

I'll happily root for the Brewers this year. Just a fun team to watch.

Here’s the part about Andrew Vaughn in the Athletic article

When Vaughn received his promotion, the staff provided marching orders, just as they did for Priester. If he did not swing at strikes, he would not stick around. The message left little room for interpretation, which is one of Murphy’s hallmarks.

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 12:42 pm Here’s the part about Andrew Vaughn in the Athletic article

When Vaughn received his promotion, the staff provided marching orders, just as they did for Priester. If he did not swing at strikes, he would not stick around. The message left little room for interpretation, which is one of Murphy’s hallmarks.

So different from the
“Just glad you’re here playing for us…..do your best…..don’t listen to us and just do what you’re comfortable with….you’ll literally need to not touch a baseball with a bat for over a month for us to consider sending you back down….because who would we play in your place….and remember I’m the manger of a MLB club but I’m really here to defend whatever you do no matter how poorly you do it. Please give me a good review at the end of season”.

hmoss859 wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 12:02 pm I read a deep dive article on Athletic (paywall or I would post it) about Brewers today

Winning is their only priority, check your ego at door

They told Andrew Vaughn if you swing at strikes you play, if you don’t you will be released

Pat Murphy is a straight shooter with players. You play their way or you don’t play, it’s that simple. They take their walks, run the bases like bandits.

Very selfless hungry players who want to win and know the standard expected

Actually, there's no paywall on this one

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/653906 ... st-record/

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 07:31 am

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 01:17 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025 00:11 am The Brewers realized they could not buy top guys in the free agent market so they needed to acquire players in the draft but also in the 'international market' . They really went big with scouting in the Caribbean areas. Two guys really stand out currently .. Jackson Chourio they signed when he was 16 years old . By the time he was 19 years old, the Brewers signed him to an 8 yr. deal before he had played a game in the MLB. He currently is one of their top 2-3 players along with Yelich and Frelich.
Another international signing is Jesus Made ...a SS from the Dominican Republic Made was also signed at age 16
at age 17 he was put in Low A Carolina
Made is the Brewers No. 1 prospect in their system . He has tremendous tools.

So looks like Brewers hit on another gem after signing Chourio .

One of the reasons why the Brewers are so good .

BTW their No.2 prospect is also an 18 year old .. dominican Rebpublic Luis Pena like Made a SS/3B type kid

Cardinals need to do a better job in the International signings. Brewers are getting some really young great kids from there.
In 2 to 3 years , the core of the Brewers will be Chourio, Made, and Pena very likely . All three will be in their early 20's

Go Cards !

The Cardinals have probably signed 30+ Dominican players over the years, has even 1 panned out. Since Albert was living in KC when he was drafted, he doesn't count...I know they have a couple guys starting to work there way through the system. But, after 20+ years, you would think there would be 1. As of now, they have Padilla and Rodriguez in their top 10 who are both about 3 years out.

I think in addition to the points you hit on, the other big difference is the Brewers drafted pitchers with swing and miss stuff, while the Cards went after pitch to contact pitchers. The difference in results is staggering. The Brewers over the last 10 years have produced about 4-5 #1 and #2 type pitchers. The Cards have produced 0 in that category. Brewers, Byrnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Misiorowski, etc. The only pitcher the Cards had during this time frame that were close was Wainwright in the years he was good. But not once did they have a rookie/young pitcher like the Brewers had. If you look at the starting 8 the Brewers have put on the field, the Cards have generally been competitive with them. But, the starting pitching staffs were distinctly better for the Brewers. Now as you point out, they are also developing good position players as well. The Cards will need at least 2-3 years to catch up to the Brewers in pitching and that assumes the Cards draft well.

Carlos Martinez and Ivan Herrera.

You are correct on CMart. Ivan Herrera is from Panama. Technicality, but...OK, so they have literally picked up 1 major league player from the Dominican in 25 years. That is not a great track record of success. Perhaps the two coming through the system change the success rate. But, if we want to pinpoint why the Cards have dropped off, lack of drafting pitchers with swing and miss stuff and failing to identify Dominican talent are two that should be pretty high on the list.

jbrach wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025 21:20 pm well they now have the best record in baseball with a payroll of 108 mill I read...how do they do this ?

took the cardinal way, and are out cardinaling the cardinals.

they built around pitching and good defense. when they cannot afford a player, they deal him for pieces tthat will help then replace and fix holes.


it's embarrassing how they took a rivals approach, and now are the leaders, while cardinals are chumps

the brewers are spending far less than the cards did on a relative basis in their glory years...the cards were always in the top 1/3..the brewers are near the bottom...this is a really well run operation and it isnt as simple as people here make it out to be or else the pirates would be contenders yearly..the yanks spend 250 million more than the brewers and they are fighting for a playoff spot

They have a great minor league pitching staff/lab in Arizona too, maybe the best in baseball

26 man effort to win games…no other agenda involved

Pat Murphy commands great respect in dugout and his players respond

It's a sad day when this historic franchise has to look north with wanting eyes.

The Clark Street clowns should be rode out of town on a rail.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025 06:26 am It's a sad day when this historic franchise has to look north with wanting eyes.

The Clark Street clowns should be rode out of town on a rail.

Cadaver eyes, upon me see. Nothing.