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Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 11:41 am
by Quincy Varnish
ecleme22 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 08:47 am
moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 08:43 am
what were his stats away from COL during that time?
.985 OPS at home
.793 OPS away
In the 5-year window you cited, 2015-2019 -
1.037 OPS home
.838 OPS away
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 11:42 am
by ecleme22
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 09:42 am
Mike Schmidt has consistently praised Nolan Arenado, calling him the "heir apparent" to the greatest third basemen of all time. Schmidt, widely considered the best third baseman ever, has publicly stated that Arenado is on a path to join him and others in Cooperstown. He highlights Arenado's exceptional defense and offensive production, noting that Arenado's numbers are "crazy". Schmidt believes Arenado is the greatest defensive third baseman currently playing and potentially ever.
I think the writers that vote on Hall of Famers will certainly take into consideration comments by his peers. From what I have read and heard on MLB (Mark DeRosa comments included ) , the baseball people seem to think that his combination of superlative defensive , consistent offense , and longevity will earn him a spot in the Hall of Fame.
Yes, his offensive numbers alone don't put him in the HOF but the combination of one of the greatest 3rd baseman defensively and good off. stats should get him a spot in Cooperstown .
Ozzie Smith earned HOF thru his superior defense with decent numbers on offense.
Ozzie nearly had 2,500 hits, 600 SBs, 13 Gold Gloves and a 77 WAR.
If Nolan hadn't played in Colorado, his career OPS would probably be in the high .700s/low .800s, he wouldn't be even close to 2000 hits (maybe 1700) and he probably wouldn't have 300 HRs. And his career is currently on fumes.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 11:44 am
by ecleme22
Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 11:41 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 08:47 am
moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 08:43 am
what were his stats away from COL during that time?
.985 OPS at home
.793 OPS away
In the 5-year window you cited, 2015-2019 -
1.037 OPS home
.838 OPS away
Thank you for the stats.
Yeah, that's significant.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 11:58 am
by Hazelwood72
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 09:42 am
Mike Schmidt has consistently praised Nolan Arenado, calling him the "heir apparent" to the greatest third basemen of all time. Schmidt, widely considered the best third baseman ever, has publicly stated that Arenado is on a path to join him and others in Cooperstown. He highlights Arenado's exceptional defense and offensive production, noting that Arenado's numbers are "crazy". Schmidt believes Arenado is the greatest defensive third baseman currently playing and potentially ever.
I think the writers that vote on Hall of Famers will certainly take into consideration comments by his peers. From what I have read and heard on MLB (Mark DeRosa comments included ) , the baseball people seem to think that his combination of superlative defensive , consistent offense , and longevity will earn him a spot in the Hall of Fame.
Yes, his offensive numbers alone don't put him in the HOF but the combination of one of the greatest 3rd baseman defensively and good off. stats should get him a spot in Cooperstown .
Ozzie Smith earned HOF thru his superior defense with decent numbers on offense.
Hi Dan,
I’ll mildly disagree with one thing in your otherwise excellent post.
While “The Press” and “The Fans” might consider Mike Schmidt the best 3rd sacker of all time, I believe some of those accolades are due to his hitting.
My vote for the best defensive 3rd baseman of all time is Brooks Robinson. Opposing players called him “Hoover” for the way he sucked up everything that came his way. The 1970 Cincinnati Reds called him “That %**%^# Hoover” because he was a one man show and stole that World Series from the superior Big Red Machine.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 12:00 pm
by RamFan08NY
He's going to finish his career with similar #s as Brooks Robinson. While NA is certainly no Mike Schmit, hes is all of Brooks Robinson. Arenado played in Coors, Robinson played in a hitters era.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 12:20 pm
by ecleme22
RamFan08NY wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 12:00 pm
He's going to finish his career with similar #s as Brooks Robinson. While NA is certainly no Mike Schmit, hes is all of Brooks Robinson. Arenado played in Coors, Robinson played in a hitters era.
Fact is, if NA was currently 3 seasons away from getting 2,000 hits and was kicking around 280 HRs, he wouldn't be looked at the same way....
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 12:32 pm
by OldRed
RamFan08NY wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 12:00 pm
He's going to finish his career with similar #s as Brooks Robinson. While NA is certainly no Mike Schmit, hes is all of Brooks Robinson. Arenado played in Coors,
Robinson played in a hitters era.
???
Age of the Pitcher
Following World War II the game remained relatively the same from the mid 40s into the late 60s.
Throughout the 60s there was a strong trend emerging in the MLB – pitchers were becoming dominant and hitting stats were suffering.
Some baseball purists may have liked this defensive style of baseball but most fans called the lack of offense a problem. This “problem” reached its peak in 1968, which is dubbed The Year of the Pitcher.
Bob Gibson was the league’s best pitcher that year – leading the St. Louis Cardinals to the World Series (where they lost to my Tigers). In ’68 Gibson had a record of 22-9 with a sparkling ERA of 1.12 and a WHIP of 0.85. Gibby recorded 268 strikeouts in just over 300 innings – very good for facing an era of hitters which prided themselves in not striking out.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 12:41 pm
by Hazelwood72
RamFan08NY wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 12:00 pm
He's going to finish his career with similar #s as Brooks Robinson. While NA is certainly no Mike Schmit, hes is all of Brooks Robinson. Arenado played in Coors, Robinson played in a hitters era.
Agree that Arenado’s stats are more comparable to Brooks Robinson’s than Mike Schmidt’s.
But Brooksie played from 1955 to 1977. The 1960’s were mostly a pitchers era with the 15 inch high mound, and strike zone at top of the shoulders. It wasn’t until 1969 when it became better for the batters. And he played half of his games at Memorial Stadium which was a pitchers park unless you pulled it right down the foul lines.
Anyway, if the voters use Robinson as a HOF model, then Arenado will probably be voted in. I don’t think Arenado is the leader or competitor that Brooks was, but a lot of HOF voters just look at stats.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:08 pm
by Wattage
ecleme22 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 20:09 pm
I don't think so.
Career stats:
1911 hits
351 HR
.339 OBP
.507 SLUG
.847 OPS
119 OPS+
In Colorado, he had:
-5 SEASONS in row of 37-42 HRs, leading the league three times.
-5 SEASONS of .898 OPS - .962 OPS
That's like having 5 seasons in a row BETTER than his 2022 season...
So what are those numbers if he played outside of Colorado?
Does he even have 300 HRs. Would he even be in line for his 2000th hit? Would his career OPS+ be under 110?
I'm guessing he would be similar to Longoria, Fryman and a little Brooks Robinson, hitting wise.
And with that, he would fall short of the Hall of Fame.
Ops + does factor in the ballpark factor. Also offense across the league was up during those seasons. Arenado in 2022 with us had a 151 ops+ his best ops+ in colorado was 133. He also was younger then. His 2022 proves he could rake outside of colorado- while the rW totals like ops avg homeruns were down- as mentiomed ops+ takes that into account of colorados ballpark and 2022 was in a much better pitching era. Unfortunately ges just cooked but he was great in his prime.
Yes his homerun totals would be down which may hurt his case. I still dont think hes a certain hall of famer with how hes dropped off
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:12 pm
by Wattage
ecleme22 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 11:37 am
Othawhitemeat wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 10:59 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 08:47 am
moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 08:43 am
what were his stats away from COL during that time?
.985 OPS at home
.793 OPS away
While he benefitted from Coors, I also think Arenado should be considered that he is one of the best defensive 3rd basemen ever while being a very good offensive player wherever he played. Nolan put up 2 really great years in St. Louis too with 30 and 34 homers with the latter being one of finishing 3rd in MVP voting.
JMO.
Eh, he put up one great year. And that great year was worse than his all 5 of his big Colo years.
That great year you say was worse was easily his best year in regards to how he did vs the league. He had a 151 ops+ for us that year. In colorado his best was 133 and he only reached 130 3 times
Ops+ also factors in the ballpark factors.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:13 pm
by DickyBennett
hmoss859 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 10:47 am
How has Arenado performed under the bright lights in the Post Season.
Oh that’s right he hasn’t hardly played in Post
Season
Well he is 5-33 with a .385 OPS
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:17 pm
by ecleme22
Wattage wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 13:08 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 20:09 pm
I don't think so.
Career stats:
1911 hits
351 HR
.339 OBP
.507 SLUG
.847 OPS
119 OPS+
In Colorado, he had:
-5 SEASONS in row of 37-42 HRs, leading the league three times.
-5 SEASONS of .898 OPS - .962 OPS
That's like having 5 seasons in a row BETTER than his 2022 season...
So what are those numbers if he played outside of Colorado?
Does he even have 300 HRs. Would he even be in line for his 2000th hit? Would his career OPS+ be under 110?
I'm guessing he would be similar to Longoria, Fryman and a little Brooks Robinson, hitting wise.
And with that, he would fall short of the Hall of Fame.
Ops + does factor in the ballpark factor. Also offense across the league was up during those seasons. Arenado in 2022 with us had a 151 ops+ his best ops+ in colorado was 133. He also was younger then. His 2022 proves he could rake outside of colorado- while the rW totals like ops avg homeruns were down- as mentiomed ops+ takes that into account of colorados ballpark and 2022 was in a much better pitching era. Unfortunately ges just cooked but he was great in his prime.
Yes his homerun totals would be down which may hurt his case. I still dont think hes a certain hall of famer with how hes dropped off
You don’t think he’s a certain HOFer? Cool.
I look forward to how many would be like you if he finished with his career w like 1910 hits and 323 HRs.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:23 pm
by Wattage
ecleme22 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 13:17 pm
Wattage wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 13:08 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 20:09 pm
I don't think so.
Career stats:
1911 hits
351 HR
.339 OBP
.507 SLUG
.847 OPS
119 OPS+
In Colorado, he had:
-5 SEASONS in row of 37-42 HRs, leading the league three times.
-5 SEASONS of .898 OPS - .962 OPS
That's like having 5 seasons in a row BETTER than his 2022 season...
So what are those numbers if he played outside of Colorado?
Does he even have 300 HRs. Would he even be in line for his 2000th hit? Would his career OPS+ be under 110?
I'm guessing he would be similar to Longoria, Fryman and a little Brooks Robinson, hitting wise.
And with that, he would fall short of the Hall of Fame.
Ops + does factor in the ballpark factor. Also offense across the league was up during those seasons. Arenado in 2022 with us had a 151 ops+ his best ops+ in colorado was 133. He also was younger then. His 2022 proves he could rake outside of colorado- while the rW totals like ops avg homeruns were down- as mentiomed ops+ takes that into account of colorados ballpark and 2022 was in a much better pitching era. Unfortunately ges just cooked but he was great in his prime.
Yes his homerun totals would be down which may hurt his case. I still dont think hes a certain hall of famer with how hes dropped off
You don’t think he’s a certain HOFer? Cool.
I look forward to how many would be like you if he finished with his career w like 1910 hits and 323 HRs.
I think hed be certain if he was just league average for a few more years. But at this point im almost wondering if he will have 2 more injury plagued .650 ops years or worse with less than 10 homeruns and be out of the league when his contract is up
I could see him gettimg banished to being a bench player as soon as nect year.
Im not writing off a rebound as possible but i think the odds are against it
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:24 pm
by ramfandan
Baseball Savant wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 13:13 pm
hmoss859 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 10:47 am
How has Arenado performed under the bright lights in the Post Season.
Oh that’s right he hasn’t hardly played in Post
Season
Well he is 5-33 with a .385 OPS
Ernie Banks played 19 seasons for the Cubs (the lovable losers) wa the nickname and played in over 2,500 games.
Banks never played in any postseason games.
He is in Cooperstown.
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:24 pm
by Ozziesfan41
Hes a hall of fame player for sure but man i wish Mo hadnt flown down there and filled his head with dreams of putting forth the best effort to contend and talked him out of Opting out he should have told him the truth that he was going to do his usual half [ashed] mo effort to contend and let him opt out
Re: Would Arenado be an obvious HOFer if he never played in Colorado?
Posted: 05 Aug 2025 13:33 pm
by ramfandan
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 13:24 pm
Hes a hall of fame player for sure but man i wish Mo hadnt flown down there and filled his head with dreams of putting forth the best effort to contend and talked him out of Opting out he should have told him the truth that he was going to do his usual half [ashed] mo effort to contend and let him opt out
Excellent post, Ozzie !
I never viewed Mo as the slick salesman type.
Maybe his better career would have been selling used cars..
Ooops preowned !
He sold Arenado that he (Mo) would add top players and he never followed thru.