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Hazelwood72 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:25 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:20 am Mo refused to update and improve his failing farm system and refused to do anything more than half azzed patch jobs in the majors, all while running off anyone that may every question him, especially managers

Of course this is going to be a long process. It’s a very large mess

100% agree. This is all on Mozo.

You hit the nail on the head! I'm not sure if Mo had the support of ownership to keep this team competitive. Patchwork to keep this team competitive is absolutely correct. Ownership has to be all in to stay competitive which would have required diving hard into free agency or building a strong minor league system with some patchwork to stay competitive. Whoever was largely responsible refrained to do either.

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:41 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:20 am Mo refused to update and improve his failing farm system and refused to do anything more than half azzed patch jobs in the majors, all while running off anyone that may every question him, especially managers

Of course this is going to be a long process. It’s a very large mess

Getting Pujols for 2022 bought one more year. How they thought they'd compete, improving 15+ games with an AARP ready rotation, a one year older Goldy and Arenado, and an incompetent manager, in 2024 was beyond me.

Well they improved 12 games while Walker/Gorman completely collapsed as well as Goldy/Nado. If 2 of the 4 didn’t completely collapse they are probably a playoff team.

Who did they even get in 2023?

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:56 am Who did they even get in 2023?

The almighty Drew Rom and John King

Oh and Saggese, Roby, Showalter, Svanson, and Prieto.

Yea, they screwed up and should have admitted to themselves that they needed a rebuild. Suck it up that the fans aren't going to understand it and do it. Now they wasted two years of rebuilding and you're looking at 2023-2026, at the least, being rebuild years.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:50 am

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:41 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:20 am Mo refused to update and improve his failing farm system and refused to do anything more than half azzed patch jobs in the majors, all while running off anyone that may every question him, especially managers

Of course this is going to be a long process. It’s a very large mess

Getting Pujols for 2022 bought one more year. How they thought they'd compete, improving 15+ games with an AARP ready rotation, a one year older Goldy and Arenado, and an incompetent manager, in 2024 was beyond me.

Well they improved 12 games while Walker/Gorman completely collapsed as well as Goldy/Nado. If 2 of the 4 didn’t completely collapse they are probably a playoff team.

Yea that was the kind of the problem it was a team that was weak and that absolutely every thing had to go right to make the post season. Some of it did go right Lynn and Gibson pitched way better than could have expected helsley was nearly perfect as closer and the back end of the bullpen was lights out but u fortunately Mo is terrible at building a bench so with some of the main players struggling they didn’t have any decent bench players who could pick up the slack. In baseball when a team needs everything to go right to make the playoffs it usually doesn’t happen

Yeah, Woo stated the obvious. But, to be a bit more fair to her, a lot of fans out there, including many who post in this forum, miss the obvious, too. Judging from the daily grind here, many seem to believe that this is a rebuilding year with the mind to contend next year. That may have been a stretch goal, a long-shot hope, but this kind of rebuild is ALWAYS multi-year. 2025 is the year to see what our stable of high-level prospects can do when given the chance. Some are earning the right to stay, others aren't. Presumably, those that aren't will get sent packing and the team will continue to build around those who earned it. That means a new round of prospects coming in to "audition" next year. If things go well and Bloom is the quality some say he is then 2027 might be a very good year. But temper your expectations for '26.

redbirdfan51 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:49 am

Hazelwood72 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:25 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:20 am Mo refused to update and improve his failing farm system and refused to do anything more than half azzed patch jobs in the majors, all while running off anyone that may every question him, especially managers

Of course this is going to be a long process. It’s a very large mess

100% agree. This is all on Mozo.

You hit the nail on the head! I'm not sure if Mo had the support of ownership to keep this team competitive. Patchwork to keep this team competitive is absolutely correct. Ownership has to be all in to stay competitive which would have required diving hard into free agency or building a strong minor league system with some patchwork to stay competitive. Whoever was largely responsible refrained to do either.

Mozeliak convinced himself and ownership that he was doing enough, and they believed / trusted him because they’ve been blinded by loyalty.

With all due respect, we traded only Helsley, Maton and Matz.

It's not like we were the 2021 Cubs trading Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber and Pederson.

You can't look at the return for three relievers and say, "wow, looks like it's a long term rebuild!"

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:50 am

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:41 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:20 am Mo refused to update and improve his failing farm system and refused to do anything more than half azzed patch jobs in the majors, all while running off anyone that may every question him, especially managers

Of course this is going to be a long process. It’s a very large mess

Getting Pujols for 2022 bought one more year. How they thought they'd compete, improving 15+ games with an AARP ready rotation, a one year older Goldy and Arenado, and an incompetent manager, in 2024 was beyond me.

Well they improved 12 games while Walker/Gorman completely collapsed as well as Goldy/Nado. If 2 of the 4 didn’t completely collapse they are probably a playoff team.

Remember the BP overachieved though and Gibson/Lynn were competitive one more year. It was always going to be a struggle to improve enough to get a playoff spot. Lets face it, even if the snuck in, it was unlikely they'd get far.

To me, if they were serious about a playoff run, they needed a strong OF bat anyway.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 10:19 am

redbirdfan51 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:49 am

Hazelwood72 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:25 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:20 am Mo refused to update and improve his failing farm system and refused to do anything more than half azzed patch jobs in the majors, all while running off anyone that may every question him, especially managers

Of course this is going to be a long process. It’s a very large mess

100% agree. This is all on Mozo.

You hit the nail on the head! I'm not sure if Mo had the support of ownership to keep this team competitive. Patchwork to keep this team competitive is absolutely correct. Ownership has to be all in to stay competitive which would have required diving hard into free agency or building a strong minor league system with some patchwork to stay competitive. Whoever was largely responsible refrained to do either.

Mozeliak convinced himself and ownership that he was doing enough, and they believed / trusted him because they’ve been blinded by loyalty.

Lets face it, Mo's record since 2015 has been nothing special.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 10:41 am With all due respect, we traded only Helsley, Maton and Matz.

It's not like we were the 2021 Cubs trading Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber and Pederson.

You can't look at the return for three relievers and say, "wow, looks like it's a long term rebuild!"

Don't you dare use common sense

restated ...

For those of you believing Mo's ticket sales propaganda claiming this is a "reset" not a rebuild that will take years...well, welcome to reality and quit listening to Mo.


Folks, they have the money freed up this off season to sign a pitcher and be a reasonably decent team, but seems they simply choose not to. They are always going to have to sign a pitcher, when they wait another 2 years, SG will be gone and another starter hole to fill added to the ones they already have. Folks, this once great org drawing 3 mil is now the pirates.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 09:19 am They should have traded Arenado and Goldschmidt in 2023 and started the multiyear rebuild then. Ownership thinking they were going to compete in 2024 was the problem.

And it paid off. They won 83 whole games last year. That is a solid B+ in the Mo/DeWitt gradebook.

Seriously...fans preparing themselves for the Bloom era need to realize that it never even occurred to this ownership that anything was amiss with this organization until attendance started dropping this year. Which raises ominous questions about how much actual change is coming.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 08:25 am She has a terrific grasp of the obvious.

Good work.

Actually, Skylar Hales is also in AAA, so her reporting isnt even accurate.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025 10:41 am With all due respect, we traded only Helsley, Maton and Matz.

It's not like we were the 2021 Cubs trading Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Schwarber and Pederson.

You can't look at the return for three relievers and say, "wow, looks like it's a long term rebuild!"

Exactly!!

Not sure why people are knocking Woo's reporting on this. She's been pretty spot on with most of her reporting the last few years. Besides, I'm not convinced a lot of fans know what a rebuild is, so it's probably good that she gets the information out there.