STLtoday.com

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:13 am**

Can we just tank and get this over with? No idea what “rebuilding” or progress was made this season. If most decent ML talent and SALARY is being dumped and not coming back then do it……be terrible and get draft picks. This exercise of losing ML talent and getting nothing in return, not making substantial trades that return true ML talent, or signing FA isn’t going form a winning ML team. So tank, we’ll see you 5-6 yrs

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:14 am**

rbirules wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:10 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 08:50 am Sure thing:
Maton

Very possible:
JoJo
Noot
NADO (if the stros' do come calling I'd bet he waives)

Maybe:
Donny
Burleson
Mikolas if he's wanted and will waive

Long shot:
Winn
Walker
Gorman
Pallante
I'd bump Arenado and Noot down to the "maybe" tier. Maton absolutely has to be moved, and JoJo should be as well. Hope we can move Arenado.

It now appears Noot is garnering some attention rbis:

USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports that they’re also fielding offers on outfielder Lars Nootbaar

Reading J. Denton today it appears NADO may now want out. Probably agree w/you about his bump down to "maybe" unless the stros' come calling (I think he'd now waive) and of course the Dodgers.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:18 am**

Jatalk wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:00 am It would please me greatly if it’s Nado.

A few years ago when almost everyone was excited about trading for Nado, I warned that his contract would become an anchor dragging the team down, but no one wanted to hear that then.

--Think about the championships we might win with Nado-- folks said.

Yeah, well my experience says, and I've screwed up way more than most, that it almost always pays to take the long view.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:18 am**

rbirules wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:10 amI'd bump Arenado and Noot down to the "maybe" tier. Maton absolutely has to be moved, and JoJo should be as well. Hope we can move Arenado.

Derrick Goold reported that Maton didn't travel with the team to San Diego, so he's for sure gone today.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:26 am**

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:18 amA few years ago when almost everyone was excited about trading for Nado, I warned that his contract would become an anchor dragging the team down, but no one wanted to hear that then.

--Think about the championships we might win with Nado-- folks said.

Yeah, well my experience says, and I've screwed up way more than most, that it almost always pays to take the long view.

You were right.

And fans should apply that to the big name free agents that they want every year. Sure, all it takes is money, but the Cardinals, even if they raise the payroll to $200 million every year, aren't the type of team that can just eat a bunch of contracts when the last few years are going to be some serious decline years. And (bleep) near every one of those deals is going to come with some serious decline years.

Look at how people treat Arenado now. They act like he's a turd that they can't wait to get rid of. If they don't like that, then good thing they didn't go out and sign an Anthony Rendon or Carlos Correa or Madison Bumgarner or Patrick Corbin. I know people wanted them at the time. But some fans can't resist the shiny object that comes around every year.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:34 am**

Perfect world you DFA Mikolas if he doesn't agree to a trade...we don;t need him, he's a constant reminder of the $100M+ blown on him over the seasons, and literally anyone can take his place.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:38 am**

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:26 am
Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:18 amA few years ago when almost everyone was excited about trading for Nado, I warned that his contract would become an anchor dragging the team down, but no one wanted to hear that then.

--Think about the championships we might win with Nado-- folks said.

Yeah, well my experience says, and I've screwed up way more than most, that it almost always pays to take the long view.
You were right.

And fans should apply that to the big name free agents that they want every year. Sure, all it takes is money, but the Cardinals, even if they raise the payroll to $200 million every year, aren't the type of team that can just eat a bunch of contracts when the last few years are going to be some serious decline years. And (drat) near every one of those deals is going to come with some serious decline years.

Look at how people treat Arenado now. They act like he's a turd that they can't wait to get rid of. If they don't like that, then good thing they didn't go out and sign an Anthony Rendon or Carlos Correa or Madison Bumgarner or Patrick Corbin. I know people wanted them at the time. But some fans can't resist the shiny object that comes around every year.

Eventually all big contracts become boat anchors or at least a lot of the time. I was happy with the acquisition of Nado and Goldy. I thought they would get us closer to a championship. They both failed.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:41 am**

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:26 am
Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:18 amA few years ago when almost everyone was excited about trading for Nado, I warned that his contract would become an anchor dragging the team down, but no one wanted to hear that then.

--Think about the championships we might win with Nado-- folks said.

Yeah, well my experience says, and I've screwed up way more than most, that it almost always pays to take the long view.
You were right.

And fans should apply that to the big name free agents that they want every year. Sure, all it takes is money, but the Cardinals, even if they raise the payroll to $200 million every year, aren't the type of team that can just eat a bunch of contracts when the last few years are going to be some serious decline years. And (drat) near every one of those deals is going to come with some serious decline years.

Look at how people treat Arenado now. They act like he's a turd that they can't wait to get rid of. If they don't like that, then good thing they didn't go out and sign an Anthony Rendon or Carlos Correa or Madison Bumgarner or Patrick Corbin. I know people wanted them at the time. But some fans can't resist the shiny object that comes around every year.

The Cardinals have eaten more than their share of contracts.

But instead of one Anthony Rendon, they’ve eaten 6-7 lesser contracts/extensions.

I just hope Bloom spends the available money wisely.

His predecessor has spent the available money poorly.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 09:47 am**

Jatalk wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:38 amEventually all big contracts become boat anchors or at least a lot of the time. I was happy with the acquisition of Nado and Goldy. I thought they would get us closer to a championship. They both failed.

I did too. And I think overall the Goldschmidt acquisition and extension was a very successful one. His worst decline year was his last year and he wasn't terrible. I consider that a win. They probably should have sucked it up in 2023 and traded him, though.

But yea, it sucks that the Arenado/Goldschmidt era ends as a failure. I put that mostly on ownership and the front office not doing more and making better decisions to put the team over the top. Both of them were bad in the playoffs, though.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 10:51 am**

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 06:45 am Hopefully Maton since I just picked up Leahy, who might move into the closer role, in our fantasy league.

Maton will be the new closer. He should be moved.
But, do you trust Mo to make the obvious move?
Pick him up now, avoid the rush.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 10:54 am**

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:26 am
Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:18 amA few years ago when almost everyone was excited about trading for Nado, I warned that his contract would become an anchor dragging the team down, but no one wanted to hear that then.

--Think about the championships we might win with Nado-- folks said.

Yeah, well my experience says, and I've screwed up way more than most, that it almost always pays to take the long view.
You were right.

And fans should apply that to the big name free agents that they want every year. Sure, all it takes is money, but the Cardinals, even if they raise the payroll to $200 million every year, aren't the type of team that can just eat a bunch of contracts when the last few years are going to be some serious decline years. And (drat) near every one of those deals is going to come with some serious decline years.

Look at how people treat Arenado now. They act like he's a turd that they can't wait to get rid of. If they don't like that, then good thing they didn't go out and sign an Anthony Rendon or Carlos Correa or Madison Bumgarner or Patrick Corbin. I know people wanted them at the time. But some fans can't resist the shiny object that comes around every year.

Success, depends on each fans on criteria for success.

Depth is usually what suffers with a lower payroll injuries derail a team.
But it can be done. Currently Milwaukee is doing it since 2017 with upper 80's to mid 90's
win totals. For many that's 0 success. Tampa stays relevant again 0 championships and they
have Kevin Cash who's contract ends I think. At the $200 level Houston has had a very
good run, Atlanta until the epidemic with injuries. SD is on a small run.
Currently no team above 60% Wins. No dominance. 56%-58% wins gives the chance
of a WS and is a good season, 90+ wins for this very flawed team playing .500.

I'd add a C to the list of trades that may happen

Maton
Pozo

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 12:49 pm**

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:26 am
Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:18 amA few years ago when almost everyone was excited about trading for Nado, I warned that his contract would become an anchor dragging the team down, but no one wanted to hear that then.

--Think about the championships we might win with Nado-- folks said.

Yeah, well my experience says, and I've screwed up way more than most, that it almost always pays to take the long view.
You were right.

And fans should apply that to the big name free agents that they want every year. Sure, all it takes is money, but the Cardinals, even if they raise the payroll to $200 million every year, aren't the type of team that can just eat a bunch of contracts when the last few years are going to be some serious decline years. And (drat) near every one of those deals is going to come with some serious decline years.

Look at how people treat Arenado now. They act like he's a turd that they can't wait to get rid of. If they don't like that, then good thing they didn't go out and sign an Anthony Rendon or Carlos Correa or Madison Bumgarner or Patrick Corbin. I know people wanted them at the time. But some fans can't resist the shiny object that comes around every year.

Look what Brewers have been doing. They have made the second most trades in the last 4 years. They have a smaller market and have been better at building than the Cards.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 12:52 pm**

Maton gets traded. That's it.

And that, I think, is an abject failure.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 13:01 pm**

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 07:52 am
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 06:45 am Hopefully Maton since I just picked up Leahy, who might move into the closer role, in our fantasy league.
Not to burst your fantasy bubble but Leahy won’t have many opportunity to save

It’s gonna get ugly the last 2 months, I mean ugly

they might improve.it snt as if they are trading cy young winners

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 13:03 pm**

It's in another thread, but Katie Woo tweeting that the Cards are done after Maton. Of course we don't know what the offers are/were on Donovan, Burleson, and Nootbaar, and maybe Arenado was impossible to move, but keeping all those guys feels like a huge mistake that is going to haunt us in 2027/2028+. Hard to imagine demand for any of those guys will be higher over the winter than it is now, and this organization has essentially no pitching anywhere today that can make them better than mediocre for the foreseeable future.

Posted: **31 Jul 2025 13:14 pm**

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:47 am
Jatalk wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:38 amEventually all big contracts become boat anchors or at least a lot of the time. I was happy with the acquisition of Nado and Goldy. I thought they would get us closer to a championship. They both failed.
I did too. And I think overall the Goldschmidt acquisition and extension was a very successful one. His worst decline year was his last year and he wasn't terrible. I consider that a win. They probably should have sucked it up in 2023 and traded him, though.

But yea, it sucks that the Arenado/Goldschmidt era ends as a failure. I put that mostly on ownership and the front office not doing more and making better decisions to put the team over the top. Both of them were bad in the playoffs, though.

The problem is with the team's approach.

A team dedicated to winning championships adds Goldschmidt and Arenado when they're already very good and trying to take that last step. The Cardinals added both because the were a slightly above average team trying to maintain ticket sales--They built a pretend contender.

They got what they wanted even if it wasn't what many fans wanted.

STLtoday.com

Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?

Re: Helsley, Matz gone... list who else goes today ?