Willson Contreras

[rockondlouie]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

[Wattage]

He and Donovan are two I would not trade unless return was spectacular

Id not want to trade donovan but why not trade contreras. I dont think we will be winning world series in next 2 xears and he likely wont be resigned.

He has a no trade clause though

[scoutyjones2]

He and Donovan are two I would not trade unless return was spectacular

Id not want to trade donovan but why not trade contreras. I dont think we will be winning world series in next 2 xears and he likely wont be resigned.

He has a no trade clause though

Hurdy is a free agent in 2028. He's due arb...sell!!!

[Wattage]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

[CorneliusWolfe]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

I usually think that way too, about guys hitting in specific spots, I just look at them as top/middle/bottom classification, but those splits are pretty compelling. Maybe he’s the exception in being far better in an exact spot in the order.

[Jatalk]

He and Donovan are two I would not trade unless return was spectacular

Id not want to trade donovan but why not trade contreras. I dont think we will be winning world series in next 2 xears and he likely wont be resigned.

He has a no trade clause though

I think he is the team spark and a good leader for younger guys. It would be nice to have some veteran presence.

[rockondlouie]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leadoff and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

[Wattage]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leading and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

The .757 and it being the worst of his career is only because ofn2024 and 2025 though. Back when the cubbies did it, his splits there were fine compared to the other spots they batted him. So by your own logic the cubs were smart to do it then and its only dumb now

In 2021 he batted better for them at 2nd than he did any position other than leadoff that year and in 2022 he had a good year batting 2nd.

Contreras only started hitting poorly batting 2nd these last 2 years. And the sample sizes are.small in grand scheme of things so batting in a certain posution while being in a bad slump could effect that

[dugoutrex]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leadoff and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

why does Winn suck this year - he hasn't hit lead off all year

[rockondlouie]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leading and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

The .757 and it being the worst of his career is only because ofn2024 and 2025 though. Back when the cubbies did it, his splits there were fine compared to the other spots they batted him.

In 2021 he batted better for them at 2nd than he did any position other than leadoff that year and in 2022 he had a good year batting 2nd.

Contreras only started hitting poorly batting 2nd these last 2 years

Cherry picking wattage, doesn't work that way.

This is NOW, not 2021.

His career stats prove he's NOT a 2nd place hitter, he's a true MOTO hitter who thrives when hitting #3-5 and NOT wasted hitting #2.

[Wattage]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leading and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

The .757 and it being the worst of his career is only because ofn2024 and 2025 though. Back when the cubbies did it, his splits there were fine compared to the other spots they batted him.

In 2021 he batted better for them at 2nd than he did any position other than leadoff that year and in 2022 he had a good year batting 2nd.

Contreras only started hitting poorly batting 2nd these last 2 years

Cherry picking wattage, doesn't work that way.

This is NOW, not 2021.

His career stats prove he's NOT a 2nd place hitter, he's a true MOTO hitter who thrives when hitting #3-5 and NOT wasted hitting #2.

But you said cubs were dumb to bat him 2nd because of his career splits whem that wasnt the case back then

Okay i looked it up using free 1 month advanced trial of baseball reference

Contreras has a career .813 ops
Prior to 2024, contreras had a .805 ops in 533 at bats batting 2nd from 2016-2023
Prior to this year, contreras had a career .792 ops batting 2nd from 2016-2024.
His bad career splits there are ONLY because he struggled there this year. PERIOD. ONLY REASON. They looked fine there otherwise.

Entering this season his career ops batting 2nd at .792 was higher than batting 4th at .790 from 2016-2024
Entering 2024 his career ops from 2016-2023 batting 2nd at .805 was higher than his career ops batting 3rd at .791, but now contreras has a career .837 ops batting 3rd cuz he had a monster season batting there for us last year- yet your career splits game would have said that was a dumb move but now it looks smart to bat him 3rd.

Thats how a single hot streak or cold streak from a single season can easily influence those splits.

The only real consistent split he has had is batting 5th has always been somewhat high in the year to year timeframes. The rest have bounced all over the place season to season.

[esp31]

is ... the best player on our team!

Well..it is a low bar

He is 4th in MLB in WAR at 1B. I think that's a good bar to set. Of all the things the Cards counted on in the offseason, his move to 1B has been the best.

[esp31]

is ... the best player on our team!

Well..it is a low bar

He is 4th in MLB in WAR at 1B. I think that's a good bar to set. Of all the things the Cards counted on in the offseason, his move to 1B has been the best.

In fact, the whole Cards infield holds up well in WAR rankings. Arenado is the lowest, in the middle of the pack at 3B. It's the catching position, the outfield, and lack of power that is the issue with the offense.

[rockondlouie]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leading and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

The .757 and it being the worst of his career is only because ofn2024 and 2025 though. Back when the cubbies did it, his splits there were fine compared to the other spots they batted him.

In 2021 he batted better for them at 2nd than he did any position other than leadoff that year and in 2022 he had a good year batting 2nd.

Contreras only started hitting poorly batting 2nd these last 2 years

Cherry picking wattage, doesn't work that way.

This is NOW, not 2021.

His career stats prove he's NOT a 2nd place hitter, he's a true MOTO hitter who thrives when hitting #3-5 and NOT wasted hitting #2.

But you said cubs were dumb to bat him 2nd because of his career splits whem that wasnt the case back then

Okay i looked it up using free 1 month advanced trial of baseball reference

Contreras has a career .813 ops
Prior to 2024, contreras had a .805 ops in 533 at bats batting 2nd from 2016-2023
Prior to this year, contreras had a career .792 ops batting 2nd from 2016-2024.
His bad career splits there are ONLY because he struggled there this year. PERIOD. ONLY REASON. They looked fine there otherwise.

Entering this season his career ops batting 2nd at .792 was higher than batting 4th at .790 from 2016-2024
Entering 2024 his career ops from 2016-2023 batting 2nd at .805 was higher than his career ops batting 3rd at .791, but now contreras has a career .837 ops batting 3rd cuz he had a monster season batting there for us last year- yet your career splits game would have said that was a dumb move but now it looks smart to bat him 3rd.

Thats how a single hot streak or cold streak from a single season can easily influence those splits.

The only real consistent split he has had is batting 5th has always been somewhat high in the year to year timeframes. The rest have bounced all over the place season to season.

Agree that we'll just disagree here wattage

Where a hitter see's himself fitting in a batting order matters.

[Wattage]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leading and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

The .757 and it being the worst of his career is only because ofn2024 and 2025 though. Back when the cubbies did it, his splits there were fine compared to the other spots they batted him.

In 2021 he batted better for them at 2nd than he did any position other than leadoff that year and in 2022 he had a good year batting 2nd.

Contreras only started hitting poorly batting 2nd these last 2 years

Cherry picking wattage, doesn't work that way.

This is NOW, not 2021.

His career stats prove he's NOT a 2nd place hitter, he's a true MOTO hitter who thrives when hitting #3-5 and NOT wasted hitting #2.

But you said cubs were dumb to bat him 2nd because of his career splits whem that wasnt the case back then

Okay i looked it up using free 1 month advanced trial of baseball reference

Contreras has a career .813 ops
Prior to 2024, contreras had a .805 ops in 533 at bats batting 2nd from 2016-2023
Prior to this year, contreras had a career .792 ops batting 2nd from 2016-2024.
His bad career splits there are ONLY because he struggled there this year. PERIOD. ONLY REASON. They looked fine there otherwise.

Entering this season his career ops batting 2nd at .792 was higher than batting 4th at .790 from 2016-2024
Entering 2024 his career ops from 2016-2023 batting 2nd at .805 was higher than his career ops batting 3rd at .791, but now contreras has a career .837 ops batting 3rd cuz he had a monster season batting there for us last year- yet your career splits game would have said that was a dumb move but now it looks smart to bat him 3rd.

Thats how a single hot streak or cold streak from a single season can easily influence those splits.

The only real consistent split he has had is batting 5th has always been somewhat high in the year to year timeframes. The rest have bounced all over the place season to season.

Agree that we'll just disagree here wattage

Where a hitter see's himself fitting in a batting order matters.

Im just saying the splits can be vastly effected by a cold or hot streak while a player is hitting in a location in one year. Contreras has always hit well 5th, but prior to coming to the cardinals he hit far better 2nd vs 3rd and 4th. You immediately told me the cubs were dumb for batting him 2nd too cuz his career splits now say he hits wirse there, but as i showed you, he actually was hitting better there than 2rd or 4th prior to these last 2 seasons so it would have made sense then.

Im not saying it can have no impact. Matt Carpenter had pretty extreme splits not batting 1st. But the career splits are still ultimately small sample sizes and can easily be influenced by 1 bad streak.

Contreras career splits at 2nd fell from .792 to .757 just from how bad he struggled early this year. Not even a full year mind you but just a horrible month. There was nothing to indicate batting him 1nd was bad prior to this year. Contreras career splits at 3rd drastically changed to great number just from last year.

All these splits are ultimately still small sample sizes and lots ofnthem vary a lot year to year if you look at them.

[rockondlouie]

As some people said early in the year, Contreras will be ok.

It’s now July 28th and his OPS is up to .807. He is one of two players with an OPS above .800 on the team now, with Herrera being the other at .883.

When it comes down to it, Contreras can hit. And he’s proven fine defensively at 1B.

2023: .264/.358/.467 131 OPS+
2024 :.262/.380/.468 137 OPS+
2025: .264/.352/.455 126 OPS+

And he leads the league in doubles with 28.

Since April 18th, Contreras is hitting .295/.388/.512, good for a .900 OPS.

I was always one of the "he'll be fine" guys.

Especially after the moron manager got him out of the #2 hole .

Willy hitting #2
.187 .275 .264 .538

Willy hitting #3
.295 .340 .455 .795

Willy hitting #4
.273 .368 .494 .862

Willy hitting #5
.322 .414 .610 1.024

he just started cold - had nothing to do with his spot in the lineup

Bull cr ap

And in 2021 he spenr a good chunk of the season batting 2nd and had a .777 ops hitting better there that year than he did batting 3rd 4th or 5th. And in 2022 he practically spent the whole season batting 2nd and had a .809 ops there.

Im not gonna calculate his career splits prior to the last 2 yeats cuz its too much work, but his career ops batting 2nd is .757, but it probably was close to his overall career stats prior to the last 2 years cuz he has hit poirly there in 2024 and 2025 but was fine there prior.

I like you but sometimes i think you are a little overobsessive and goofy with thes platoon splits. Batting order position can effect a little bit sometimes and maybe contribute if a player isnt in a groove to him pressing, but you sometimes suggest the whole attribution to the irder position like you think wilson contreras would probably be still hitting .187 with a .538 ops if we just let him keep batting 1nd all year and that he wluld be having a career year this year if only we only batted him 5th.

Contreras was just cild at the beginning of the year. He had hit just fine batting 2nd earlier in his career and his best career splits are actually batting leadoff but i think we both know thats silly. During his early season struggles there were some games where he batted 3rd when others had games off and he still hit poirly in those games. Contreras just started the season super cold and haopened to mostly bat 2nd during the beginning of the year.

His other years like 2021 and 2022 suggest there is no inherent problem he has with batting 2nd.

That was a stupid move by the scrubbies too.

Okay let's play that game.

WillyC CAREER Hitting Lineup position min 400 PA:

2nd
.231 .330 .427 .757 (WORST OF HIS CAREER)

3rd
.265 .372 .465 .837

4th
.258 .345 .461 .806

5th
.274 .376 .485 .862

Geez why do you guys fight this?

Same idiot argument about M. Winn last year when he S U C K E D hitting leading and was exponentially better hitting elsewhere.

(Same when the idiots tried and failed hitting Goldy 2nd )

Lineup position matters to a hitter whether you and others agree or not.

The .757 and it being the worst of his career is only because ofn2024 and 2025 though. Back when the cubbies did it, his splits there were fine compared to the other spots they batted him.

In 2021 he batted better for them at 2nd than he did any position other than leadoff that year and in 2022 he had a good year batting 2nd.

Contreras only started hitting poorly batting 2nd these last 2 years

Cherry picking wattage, doesn't work that way.

This is NOW, not 2021.

His career stats prove he's NOT a 2nd place hitter, he's a true MOTO hitter who thrives when hitting #3-5 and NOT wasted hitting #2.

But you said cubs were dumb to bat him 2nd because of his career splits whem that wasnt the case back then

Okay i looked it up using free 1 month advanced trial of baseball reference

Contreras has a career .813 ops
Prior to 2024, contreras had a .805 ops in 533 at bats batting 2nd from 2016-2023
Prior to this year, contreras had a career .792 ops batting 2nd from 2016-2024.
His bad career splits there are ONLY because he struggled there this year. PERIOD. ONLY REASON. They looked fine there otherwise.

Entering this season his career ops batting 2nd at .792 was higher than batting 4th at .790 from 2016-2024
Entering 2024 his career ops from 2016-2023 batting 2nd at .805 was higher than his career ops batting 3rd at .791, but now contreras has a career .837 ops batting 3rd cuz he had a monster season batting there for us last year- yet your career splits game would have said that was a dumb move but now it looks smart to bat him 3rd.

Thats how a single hot streak or cold streak from a single season can easily influence those splits.

The only real consistent split he has had is batting 5th has always been somewhat high in the year to year timeframes. The rest have bounced all over the place season to season.

Agree that we'll just disagree here wattage

Where a hitter see's himself fitting in a batting order matters.

Im just saying the splits can be vastly effected by a cold or hot streak while a player is hitting in a location in one year. Contreras has always hit well 5th, but prior to coming to the cardinals he hit far better 2nd vs 3rd and 4th. You immediately told me the cubs were dumb for batting him 2nd too cuz his career splits now say he hits wirse there, but as i showed you, he actually was hitting better there than 2rd or 4th prior to these last 2 seasons so it would have made sense then.

Im not saying it can have no impact. Matt Carpenter had pretty extreme splits not batting 1st. But the career splits are still ultimately small sample sizes and can easily be influenced by 1 bad streak.

Contreras career splits at 2nd fell from .792 to .757 just from how bad he struggled early this year. Not even a full year mind you but just a horrible month. There was nothing to indicate batting him 1nd was bad prior to this year. Contreras career splits at 3rd drastically changed to great number just from last year.

All these splits are ultimately still small sample sizes and lots ofnthem vary a lot year to year if you look at them.

It's a mental thing.

Guys like Willy and Goldy don't see themselves as "plate setters" who hit second, they drive in those plate setters and should always be hitting anywhere from 3rd-5th until they're at the end (like NADO who belongs at #6 now) and can't handle being that MOTO bat anymore.