Helsley gone today?

[ramfandan]

I would think odds are the Cards won’t pitch him again.
Why would they chance injury or another blown save this close to the deadline?

if there is a save opportunity today and Oli brings in somebody else, you'll have your answer.

OR if in the 8th inning , Oli signals for a reliever and both Maton and Helsley trot in from the pen.
Chip says , ' Wow this is odd.Two relievers ??' As they both go to the mound , Oli gives the ball to Maton and Oli/Helsley walk to the dugout in conversation .
Upon entering the dugout, Helsley starts hugging the other players and shaking hands. Oli had just informed Helsley he has been traded to ___
(fill in the blank ). Yesterday Grichuk was traded during his game too and cameras showed him hugging his teammates after being informed he had been traded . Of course , I am not serious but wouldn't that be wild to see two relievers trot into the mound together.. one to pitch and the other being told he is now with another team.

[Dicktar2023]

Still plenty of days to sit back & wait for contending teams to panick.

Or make other trades.

[82birds]

As usual, many things will be rumored, few, if any, things will be done. Moe has been talking and not doing for years.

^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^

[ClassicO]

Fear and timidity have defined Super Slo Mo for a long time.
Allowing fear of injury over the next 4 or 5 days to define the timing of a trade, versus focusing on the best possible deal for STL, would be complete foolishness.
And, as others have noted, the decision to sell make not have been made yet.
STL can keep him and get a comp pick if they prefer.

More horse [shirt] from Smellville.

Yep. He advocated a 4-yr., $68M extension for a guy whose best years are behind him.

Truthful, accurate (well, not quite, but I am charitable and kind by nature) description of my position.
While this is quite the exception for you, it is limited progress of sorts, and has thereby earned a reply (which I graciously offer as encouragement for you to continue down this rather rare path.
Reality is, I did not advocate for a 4 yr / 68M deal to begin this off-season.
I actually stated (with perfectly correct analysis, of course) that they should offer to sign him for than LAST fall - buying out his wlk year and the 3 years following.
So, let's do the math.
He is making 8.2 M this year.
Sunk cost.
My approach would have added 59.8 M over 4 seasons.
That is a bit less than 15M per season.
Excellent value for one of the best closers in the game.
And would bring certainty to the role - as much as that can ever be achieved.
Is Helsey worth 15M this season?
By top 5 closer standards, yes.
Will he get 15M x 3 years on the open market this coming off-season?
Unless he blows out his arm, yes.
So, I do appreciate you reminding the board of the advice I provided last fall.
In retrospect, it appears my analysis was perfect.
You should expect nothing less.
Congrats on a quality contribution to the thread.
Perhaps this little, but genuine, pat on the back will persuade you do more of the same.

No. You said:
Melville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:41 am

Offer 4 year extension.
17M a year, with 3M deferred annually and payable beginning in 2030.

That's an "extension" = after 2025.
And the deferrals don't stop the luxury tax from using the FMV of those dollars, so it's over 2M/yr. added on = $16M+/yr.

[Melville]

Fear and timidity have defined Super Slo Mo for a long time.
Allowing fear of injury over the next 4 or 5 days to define the timing of a trade, versus focusing on the best possible deal for STL, would be complete foolishness.
And, as others have noted, the decision to sell make not have been made yet.
STL can keep him and get a comp pick if they prefer.

More horse [shirt] from Smellville.

Yep. He advocated a 4-yr., $68M extension for a guy whose best years are behind him.

Truthful, accurate (well, not quite, but I am charitable and kind by nature) description of my position.
While this is quite the exception for you, it is limited progress of sorts, and has thereby earned a reply (which I graciously offer as encouragement for you to continue down this rather rare path.
Reality is, I did not advocate for a 4 yr / 68M deal to begin this off-season.
I actually stated (with perfectly correct analysis, of course) that they should offer to sign him for than LAST fall - buying out his wlk year and the 3 years following.
So, let's do the math.
He is making 8.2 M this year.
Sunk cost.
My approach would have added 59.8 M over 4 seasons.
That is a bit less than 15M per season.
Excellent value for one of the best closers in the game.
And would bring certainty to the role - as much as that can ever be achieved.
Is Helsey worth 15M this season?
By top 5 closer standards, yes.
Will he get 15M x 3 years on the open market this coming off-season?
Unless he blows out his arm, yes.
So, I do appreciate you reminding the board of the advice I provided last fall.
In retrospect, it appears my analysis was perfect.
You should expect nothing less.
Congrats on a quality contribution to the thread.
Perhaps this little, but genuine, pat on the back will persuade you do more of the same.

No. You said:
Melville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:41 am

Offer 4 year extension.
17M a year, with 3M deferred annually and payable beginning in 2030.

That's an "extension" = after 2025.
And the deferrals don't stop the luxury tax from using the FMV of those dollars, so it's over 2M/yr. added on = $16M+/yr.

That is correct.
Same position as I took last fall (when everyone was clamoring for Helsey to be traded, I instead endorsed an extension which Helsey himself has consistently sought).
I suggested 4/68 last fall.
And I maintained that same view this year - and specifically noted that it had a 30-day shelf life so that the matter could be resolved before July.
Mo rejected any notion of an extension even though Helsey was keenly interested, and his plan has been to trade Helsley in July unless there was thought that the team was still reasonably in the hunt for a post season berth.
Mo may also elect to not trade him at all over the next 4 days (though unlikely) - and may settle for the comp pick.
I stand by my position.
It has not changed.
And, as a matter of consistency, would I still offer 68M/4 yrs today - just as I have several times over the past year?
Yes.
Happy to state that.
Also happy to watch what happens with Helsley in the coming years - regardless of for whom he is pitching.
We shall see if my valuation proves correct.
Feel free - genuinely - to file for future reference.

[thetank2]

As usual, many things will be rumored, few, if any, things will be done. Moe has been talking and not doing for years.

^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^

What universe do you reside?

[Quincy Varnish]

Iglesias
Bautista
Duran
Finnegan
Fairbanks
Chapman
Jansen
Bednar
Clase
Pagan

…all likely available closers, and I’m probably missing a few. And how many teams are seriously hunting one?

Dodgers
Tigers
Blue Jays
Phillies

It might be challenging to find a good return for Helsley when there are so many available options.

[kyace]

Iglesias
Bautista
Duran
Finnegan
Fairbanks
Chapman
Jansen
Bednar
Clase
Pagan

…all likely available closers, and I’m probably missing a few. And how many teams are seriously hunting one?

Dodgers
Tigers
Blue Jays
Phillies

It might be challenging to find a good return for Helsley when there are so many available options.

Clase and Duran have multiple years of control and will cost a ton. Chapman is not being moved by Red Sox and he hurt his back today, Red Sox may join the group looking for a closer. Fairbanks has another year of control and Rays would want a ton. Iglesias has an era of around 5.
Cubs and Rangers now looking for high leverage bullpen arm, also almost every team in the race is looking for bullpen help. Helsley will be in high demand.

[jcgmoi]

They very well might end up paying a closer $20M+ next season.

I doubt it. For bad and/or rebuilding teams, top-flight closers are a needless luxury.

[82birds]

I would think odds are the Cards won’t pitch him again.
Why would they chance injury or another blown save this close to the deadline?

if there is a save opportunity today and Oli brings in somebody else, you'll have your answer.

somehow, the save opportunity never happened
not. even. close.

[Quincy Varnish]

Iglesias
Bautista
Duran
Finnegan
Fairbanks
Chapman
Jansen
Bednar
Clase
Pagan

…all likely available closers, and I’m probably missing a few. And how many teams are seriously hunting one?

Dodgers
Tigers
Blue Jays
Phillies

It might be challenging to find a good return for Helsley when there are so many available options.

Clase and Duran have multiple years of control and will cost a ton. Chapman is not being moved by Red Sox and he hurt his back today, Red Sox may join the group looking for a closer. Fairbanks has another year of control and Rays would want a ton. Iglesias has an era of around 5.
Cubs and Rangers now looking for high leverage bullpen arm, also almost every team in the race is looking for bullpen help. Helsley will be in high demand.

There’s no doubt they’ll get a lot of calls on Helsley. The point is that there are more available closers than teams in need… so if they set the price for Helsley too high, teams will not hesitate to look elsewhere.

[82birds]

Iglesias
Bautista
Duran
Finnegan
Fairbanks
Chapman
Jansen
Bednar
Clase
Pagan

…all likely available closers, and I’m probably missing a few. And how many teams are seriously hunting one?

Dodgers
Tigers
Blue Jays
Phillies

It might be challenging to find a good return for Helsley when there are so many available options.

Clase and Duran have multiple years of control and will cost a ton. Chapman is not being moved by Red Sox and he hurt his back today, Red Sox may join the group looking for a closer. Fairbanks has another year of control and Rays would want a ton. Iglesias has an era of around 5.
Cubs and Rangers now looking for high leverage bullpen arm, also almost every team in the race is looking for bullpen help. Helsley will be in high demand.

There’s no doubt they’ll get a lot of calls on Helsley. The point is that there are more available closers than teams in need… so if they set the price for Helsley too high, teams will not hesitate to look elsewhere.

wouldn't it be nice, therefore, if we had someone in charge who knew what he was doing?

[opti mist]

Fear and timidity have defined Super Slo Mo for a long time.
Allowing fear of injury over the next 4 or 5 days to define the timing of a trade, versus focusing on the best possible deal for STL, would be complete foolishness.
And, as others have noted, the decision to sell make not have been made yet.
STL can keep him and get a comp pick if they prefer.

Just like they would have gotten if they had given Goldschmidt a QO?

If they would have made Goldschmidt a qualifying offer, he would have taken it.

Opti

[makesnosense]

Iglesias
Bautista
Duran
Finnegan
Fairbanks
Chapman
Jansen
Bednar
Clase
Pagan

…all likely available closers, and I’m probably missing a few. And how many teams are seriously hunting one?

Dodgers
Tigers
Blue Jays
Phillies

It might be challenging to find a good return for Helsley when there are so many available options.

Clase and Duran have multiple years of control and will cost a ton. Chapman is not being moved by Red Sox and he hurt his back today, Red Sox may join the group looking for a closer. Fairbanks has another year of control and Rays would want a ton. Iglesias has an era of around 5.
Cubs and Rangers now looking for high leverage bullpen arm, also almost every team in the race is looking for bullpen help. Helsley will be in high demand.

There’s no doubt they’ll get a lot of calls on Helsley. The point is that there are more available closers than teams in need… so if they set the price for Helsley too high, teams will not hesitate to look elsewhere.e

The Dodgers don't need a closer They for sure sure don't need a failing one who is no better than what they have. If it is throwing with Donovan that's different.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Iglesias
Bautista
Duran
Finnegan
Fairbanks
Chapman
Jansen
Bednar
Clase
Pagan

…all likely available closers, and I’m probably missing a few. And how many teams are seriously hunting one?

Dodgers
Tigers
Blue Jays
Phillies

It might be challenging to find a good return for Helsley when there are so many available options.

Clase and Duran have multiple years of control and will cost a ton. Chapman is not being moved by Red Sox and he hurt his back today, Red Sox may join the group looking for a closer. Fairbanks has another year of control and Rays would want a ton. Iglesias has an era of around 5.
Cubs and Rangers now looking for high leverage bullpen arm, also almost every team in the race is looking for bullpen help. Helsley will be in high demand.

There’s no doubt they’ll get a lot of calls on Helsley. The point is that there are more available closers than teams in need… so if they set the price for Helsley too high, teams will not hesitate to look elsewhere.e

The Dodgers don't need a closer They for sure sure don't need a failing one who is no better than what they have. If it is throwing with Donovan that's different.

Every single team in baseball would be improved adding Helsley. Even if they already have a closer might be 3 games back to back they win tight games. Or one sets the other up. Helsley is a valuable chip.

[Quincy Varnish]

Iglesias
Bautista
Duran
Finnegan
Fairbanks
Chapman
Jansen
Bednar
Clase
Pagan

…all likely available closers, and I’m probably missing a few. And how many teams are seriously hunting one?

Dodgers
Tigers
Blue Jays
Phillies

It might be challenging to find a good return for Helsley when there are so many available options.

Clase and Duran have multiple years of control and will cost a ton. Chapman is not being moved by Red Sox and he hurt his back today, Red Sox may join the group looking for a closer. Fairbanks has another year of control and Rays would want a ton. Iglesias has an era of around 5.
Cubs and Rangers now looking for high leverage bullpen arm, also almost every team in the race is looking for bullpen help. Helsley will be in high demand.

There’s no doubt they’ll get a lot of calls on Helsley. The point is that there are more available closers than teams in need… so if they set the price for Helsley too high, teams will not hesitate to look elsewhere.e

The Dodgers don't need a closer They for sure sure don't need a failing one who is no better than what they have. If it is throwing with Donovan that's different.

The Dodgers need a closer. They’re rumored to be shopping for two more relievers, but don’t want to overpay.