Please do not trade Winn or Walker

[CCard]

I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.

Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608


Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628

Winn is an asset for his glove.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.

Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.


I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.

JMO

Both are just getting established. Both were very highly rated in the minors. Both have high ceilings. Try and replace that with lottery ticket cast offs from other teams. It would be a mistake to sell either short. Walker has the size and power to be a Dave Winfield type of player. You can't teach size. As for Winn, he's one of the best SS defensively right now and he hasn't hit his stride yet. Both will surely improve once that get established good. As for Scott, well, you can't teach speed either. He may not be able to hit major league pitching consistently. No one knows, but he has all the tools to be a superstar. These are the types of players you trade for not trade.

[renostl]

Funny how often I see folks taking a position against trading Walker - just as most did over the past 3+ years with Lars The Human Sushi-baar and are now clamoring to see him moved.

Noot and Walker are not even remotely the same type of prospects

Not the point.
Folks were wrong about hanging onto Mootbaar because of what they dreamed end hoped he could become (some even foolishly proclaimed him to be one of the best outfielders in all of baseball).
It is a good reminder concerning Walker.
Hopes and dreams are not a strategy.
Real leadership thinking is simply making the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION concerning how to manage the roster now.
Maybe Walker should be traded.
Maybe not.
But hope should have nothing to do with it.

Hope is not a bad word. It's all we have until proof comes through.
Once we gain the evidence needed then a more informed decision can be made.
Information is ongoing and constant.
They draft players with the hope that all of their filtering was accurate
and that there conclusions are sound. IF there was some exact science to this
then all MLB players would come from the first few rounds.
Not reacting to more information when acquired, that can be the problem.
That then would be called false hope. That can be problematic.

[JuanAgosto]

If Walker is not good in right, I’d consider first in his future once Willy leaves.

Walker
Donovan
Winn
JJ.

Formidable with two possible sticks on the corners.

I think they should try him in LF.

[moose-and-squirrel]

If Walker is not good in right, I’d consider first in his future once Willy leaves.

Walker
Donovan
Winn
JJ.

Formidable with two possible sticks on the corners.

I think they should try him in LF.

his arm plays better in RF, imo

he's passable right now in the field.. especially if he keeps hitting

[rockondlouie]

I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.

Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608


Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628

Winn is an asset for his glove.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.

Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.


I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.

JMO

Both are just getting established. Both were very highly rated in the minors. Both have high ceilings. Try and replace that with lottery ticket cast offs from other teams. It would be a mistake to sell either short. Walker has the size and power to be a Dave Winfield type of player. You can't teach size. As for Winn, he's one of the best SS defensively right now and he hasn't hit his stride yet. Both will surely improve once that get established good. As for Scott, well, you can't teach speed either. He may not be able to hit major league pitching consistently. No one knows, but he has all the tools to be a superstar. These are the types of players you trade for not trade.

-Winn/23 now has 1168 PA's in MLB (.256 .307 .384 .691) and could possibly improve his offensive production as he matures and gets stronger.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then you've got an asset for his glove on a true WS contender.

But NOT a cornerstone player.

-Walker/23 has nothing in common hitting and fielding wise to comp him to the Hall of Famer D. Winfield who was such a great athlete he was drafted in three sports!

He's struggled now for a year and half (.214 .267 .340 .608).

He may never be what some thought he'd be.

Not a cornerstone player.

Mo has oversold so many of his draft picks, these two are his latest.

I don't see any "high ceilings for either", this may be who they are.

And VSII a "superstar", seriously?

If they remain Cardinals for some time, then I hope you're right and they all make multiple All-star teams.

I just don't see any of the three ever being an all star caliber player.

These are just my personal opinions CC and I respect yours as well.

[Melville]

Funny how often I see folks taking a position against trading Walker - just as most did over the past 3+ years with Lars The Human Sushi-baar and are now clamoring to see him moved.

Noot and Walker are not even remotely the same type of prospects

Not the point.
Folks were wrong about hanging onto Mootbaar because of what they dreamed end hoped he could become (some even foolishly proclaimed him to be one of the best outfielders in all of baseball).
It is a good reminder concerning Walker.
Hopes and dreams are not a strategy.
Real leadership thinking is simply making the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION concerning how to manage the roster now.
Maybe Walker should be traded.
Maybe not.
But hope should have nothing to do with it.

Hope is not a bad word. It's all we have until proof comes through.
Once we gain the evidence needed then a more informed decision can be made.
Information is ongoing and constant.
They draft players with the hope that all of their filtering was accurate
and that there conclusions are sound. IF there was some exact science to this
then all MLB players would come from the first few rounds.
Not reacting to more information when acquired, that can be the problem.
That then would be called false hope. That can be problematic.

Indeed, hope is not a bad word.
Life would be dull without it.
But vague hope for the future should not blind a team to a CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION in the future.
Super Slo Mo fell in love yet again with the wrong person when he gave his heart to Mootbaar - and most of the fans swooned as well.
Blind and lovesick, Mo guaranteed the Lars The Human Sushi-baar was a future core piece, a future middle order bat, and an untouchable trade chip.
He was, of course, laughably and stupidly wrong.
But, love makes fools in many cases.
Will Walker be the next Mootbaar?
No one knows.
But what is known is this: Mo should be willing to trade Walker if the right opportunity to improve the roster comes along.
Love and fear (both to which Super Slo Mo is prone) are equally destructive if the result of either is stupid decision making.

[scoutyjones2]

If Walker is not good in right, I’d consider first in his future once Willy leaves.

Walker
Donovan
Winn
JJ.

Formidable with two possible sticks on the corners.

I think they should try him in LF.

his arm plays better in RF, imo

he's passable right now in the field.. especially if he keeps hitting

No, he really isn't, defensively or offensively. This little burp of hitting will soon disappear

[CCard]

I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.

Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608


Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628

Winn is an asset for his glove.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.

Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.


I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.

JMO

Both are just getting established. Both were very highly rated in the minors. Both have high ceilings. Try and replace that with lottery ticket cast offs from other teams. It would be a mistake to sell either short. Walker has the size and power to be a Dave Winfield type of player. You can't teach size. As for Winn, he's one of the best SS defensively right now and he hasn't hit his stride yet. Both will surely improve once that get established good. As for Scott, well, you can't teach speed either. He may not be able to hit major league pitching consistently. No one knows, but he has all the tools to be a superstar. These are the types of players you trade for not trade.

-Winn/23 now has 1168 PA's in MLB (.256 .307 .384 .691) and could possibly improve his offensive production as he matures and gets stronger.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then you've got an asset for his glove on a true WS contender.

But NOT a cornerstone player.

-Walker/23 has nothing in common hitting and fielding wise to comp him to the Hall of Famer D. Winfield who was such a great athlete he was drafted in three sports!

He's struggled now for a year and half (.214 .267 .340 .608).

He may never be what some thought he'd be.

Not a cornerstone player.

Mo has oversold so many of his draft picks, these two are his latest.

I don't see any "high ceilings for either", this may be who they are.

And VSII a "superstar", seriously?

If they remain Cardinals for some time, then I hope you're right and they all make multiple All-star teams.

I just don't see any of the three ever being an all star caliber player.

These are just my personal opinions CC and I respect yours as well.

Yeah, maybe. These players were very highly rated at AAA and are trying to transition to the major league game. They all have the tools to be great. You can't teach size and speed so Scott and Walker have the unteachable talents but they haven't had a smooth transition yet. But for a lot of great players it took a few years to get used to the major league pitching and the longer season. Scott has the talent of a Vince Coleman but not the results yet that he had in the minor leagues. I think he should be trying to hit more line drives and get on base. Then his speed could be a real game changer. Walker, I readily admit is no Dave Winfield, but he has the size and could develop the power yet. Obviosly he's still struggling but he's still young and could be a star or a bust. He's too highly rated to give up on at this time. Winn, well, how many SS in baseball would you trade him for right now?

[sikeston bulldog2]

If Walker is not good in right, I’d consider first in his future once Willy leaves.

Walker
Donovan
Winn
JJ.

Formidable with two possible sticks on the corners.

I think they should try him in LF.

his arm plays better in RF, imo

he's passable right now in the field.. especially if he keeps hitting

No, he really isn't, defensively or offensively. This little burp of hitting will soon disappear

Well here we are. First he stinks at hitting, second he can’t play right. Many first baseman were former outfielders.

Once Willy leaves, chances are Burleson and Gorman will be gone. Leaves herrera.

[Cranny]

These are future cornerstone players. They excelled at AAA and they will excel in St Louis. Winn is already one of the better SS in baseball, right now. Walker has too much talent to trade. He will only get better. Trade away Noot, he is what he is. I think we've seen his top. If they're going to trade Donny it has to be for something established. No lottery tickets. Value for value. Actually, Winn, Walker and Scott are the future. Trade them at your own peril.

Just be very careful not to trade minor leaguers who will blossom with other teams. Hopefully Bloom
and Cerfolio won’t make the Arozarena, Alcantara, Gallen, Garcia, etc. type of mistakes.

[CCard]

These are future cornerstone players. They excelled at AAA and they will excel in St Louis. Winn is already one of the better SS in baseball, right now. Walker has too much talent to trade. He will only get better. Trade away Noot, he is what he is. I think we've seen his top. If they're going to trade Donny it has to be for something established. No lottery tickets. Value for value. Actually, Winn, Walker and Scott are the future. Trade them at your own peril.

Just be very careful not to trade minor leaguers who will blossom with other teams. Hopefully Bloom
and Cerfolio won’t make the Arozarena, Alcantara, Gallen, Garcia, etc. type of mistakes.

Exactly. It's hard to do sometimes but that's a GM's job.

[Rojo Johnson]

These are future cornerstone players. They excelled at AAA and they will excel in St Louis. Winn is already one of the better SS in baseball, right now. Walker has too much talent to trade. He will only get better. Trade away Noot, he is what he is. I think we've seen his top. If they're going to trade Donny it has to be for something established. No lottery tickets. Value for value. Actually, Winn, Walker and Scott are the future. Trade them at your own peril.

If Walker and Scott are the future, then this team has a ton of problems, especially when you throw the Nootster in the mix. Some of you guys need to put Moe’s kool-aid down and open your eyes. He’s lied to you for years. And you want to believe so badly.

[CCard]

These are future cornerstone players. They excelled at AAA and they will excel in St Louis. Winn is already one of the better SS in baseball, right now. Walker has too much talent to trade. He will only get better. Trade away Noot, he is what he is. I think we've seen his top. If they're going to trade Donny it has to be for something established. No lottery tickets. Value for value. Actually, Winn, Walker and Scott are the future. Trade them at your own peril.

If Walker and Scott are the future, then this team has a ton of problems, especially when you throw the Nootster in the mix. Some of you guys need to put Moe’s kool-aid down and open your eyes. He’s lied to you for years. And you want to believe so badly.

LOL...Winn, Scott and Walker were some of the most highly rated players in AAA and you think they're junk. Kool-aid? Buddy put the Budweiser down and seek some help.

[Banner29]

I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.

Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608


Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628

Winn is an asset for his glove.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.

Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.


I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.

JMO

I mean both are still incredibly young. And keep in mind they are only months away from being out of the Mo run organization where talent goes to die and then be revived elsewhere.

Bloom already has his player development in place in the minors and I would be shocked if he didn’t have something in place already as far as coaching/player development goes in the majors when he’s got the keys to the car

It’s easy and understandable to be highly skeptical and even doubtful but keep in mind new days are coming and the Mo incompetence that has spread throughout the organization will be long gone

[rockondlouie]

I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.

Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608


Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628

Winn is an asset for his glove.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.

Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.


I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.

JMO

Both are just getting established. Both were very highly rated in the minors. Both have high ceilings. Try and replace that with lottery ticket cast offs from other teams. It would be a mistake to sell either short. Walker has the size and power to be a Dave Winfield type of player. You can't teach size. As for Winn, he's one of the best SS defensively right now and he hasn't hit his stride yet. Both will surely improve once that get established good. As for Scott, well, you can't teach speed either. He may not be able to hit major league pitching consistently. No one knows, but he has all the tools to be a superstar. These are the types of players you trade for not trade.

-Winn/23 now has 1168 PA's in MLB (.256 .307 .384 .691) and could possibly improve his offensive production as he matures and gets stronger.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then you've got an asset for his glove on a true WS contender.

But NOT a cornerstone player.

-Walker/23 has nothing in common hitting and fielding wise to comp him to the Hall of Famer D. Winfield who was such a great athlete he was drafted in three sports!

He's struggled now for a year and half (.214 .267 .340 .608).

He may never be what some thought he'd be.

Not a cornerstone player.

Mo has oversold so many of his draft picks, these two are his latest.

I don't see any "high ceilings for either", this may be who they are.

And VSII a "superstar", seriously?

If they remain Cardinals for some time, then I hope you're right and they all make multiple All-star teams.

I just don't see any of the three ever being an all star caliber player.

These are just my personal opinions CC and I respect yours as well.

Yeah, maybe. These players were very highly rated at AAA and are trying to transition to the major league game. They all have the tools to be great. You can't teach size and speed so Scott and Walker have the unteachable talents but they haven't had a smooth transition yet. But for a lot of great players it took a few years to get used to the major league pitching and the longer season. Scott has the talent of a Vince Coleman but not the results yet that he had in the minor leagues. I think he should be trying to hit more line drives and get on base. Then his speed could be a real game changer. Walker, I readily admit is no Dave Winfield, but he has the size and could develop the power yet. Obviosly he's still struggling but he's still young and could be a star or a bust. He's too highly rated to give up on at this time. Winn, well, how many SS in baseball would you trade him for right now?

The thing is CC there are MANY "highly rated AAA" players on EVERY roster, EVERY year who never reach that level in MLB.

Those "tools, size and speed" you speak of may have been dominate against weaker competition in the minor leagues, not so much when you reach The Show.

I'm a fan of VSII also, nut he has to learn to use his speed (re: BUNTING and hitting down on the ball like Ozzie did) or he'll never get there.

A .285 OB% won't allow him to use that great speed (and I think he's the best pure base stealer - 26 out of 28 - right now in MLB).

All are young and could see improvement under C. Bloom and Assoc.!

[rockondlouie]

I don't see either being "cornerstone" players.

Walker is showing signs of life (Last 9 GP: .303 .343 .455 .797) and is still young enough to get back on track but he's regressed terribly from his strong rookie season:
2024/2025
.214 .267 .340 .608


Winn's offense is nothing special either and trending downward, since June 1st:
.258 .291 .337 .628

Winn is an asset for his glove.

If he's your sixth-seventh best player, then he's fine.

Walker's defense has slipped (again) to -7 DRS so he's a liability in RF and is not the type of player you want to build around.


I'd trade ether in the right deal but I want Bloom making that call this offseason.

JMO

I mean both are still incredibly young. And keep in mind they are only months away from being out of the Mo run organization where talent goes to die and then be revived elsewhere.

Bloom already has his player development in place in the minors and I would be shocked if he didn’t have something in place already as far as coaching/player development goes in the majors when he’s got the keys to the car

It’s easy and understandable to be highly skeptical and even doubtful but keep in mind new days are coming and the Mo incompetence that has spread throughout the organization will be long gone

They are banner and their age is on their side.

I've also been saying Walker, Winn and Gorman could see a bump under the Bloom/Cerfolio team.

If they're the fifth-six-seventh best players on your team, now you have a true WS contender!

BUT

None of them appears to be a "cornerstone" player you build a team around.

IMO that's going to be JJW!