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rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Agree. This is Mo’s last stand. That ego and pride will compel him in the ways you described. For better or worse.

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

So that can you be honest with CT - your options are to sign Helsley for 4 yrs, $68M or offer him a $21.4M QO? And you don't want to trade him. You've been clear on this.

Maton would probably bring more in return but I doubt either Matz or Maton would bring much in return. Essentially bullpen depth. Helsley would bring more.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:36 pm

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Agree. This is Mo’s last stand. That ego and pride will compel him in the ways you described. For better or worse.

They won’t offer a QO

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:36 pm

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Agree. This is Mo’s last stand. That ego and pride will compel him in the ways you described. For better or worse.

Yep.
He won't surrender one last chance to sneak into the post season.
Been making that point since last October.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 21:15 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:36 pm

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Agree. This is Mo’s last stand. That ego and pride will compel him in the ways you described. For better or worse.

They won’t offer a QO

Sure they will - if he isn't moved.
He's 31.
He won't risk his chance at a multi-year contract by taking the QO.
STL knows that.

and dont sometimes the team and player have an agreement the player wont be taking it....

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 23:11 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 21:15 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:36 pm

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Agree. This is Mo’s last stand. That ego and pride will compel him in the ways you described. For better or worse.

They won’t offer a QO

Sure they will - if he isn't moved.
He's 31.
He won't risk his chance at a multi-year contract by taking the QO.
STL knows that.

No they won’t. Cards aren’t going to pay a closer 20 million. It won’t happen. If you think that u don’t know how they operate. They won’t risk him taking it and he would unless he somehow turns it around and pitches lights out the rest of the season and figures out how to get people out with the fastball again which he won’t do. Because if he continues to pitch the way he has a team isn’t going to give him a multi year contract at best it would be a one year deal worth less than 20 million and an option so his agent will tell him to take the QO. Cards won’t risk him taking it they wouldn’t be able to unload the full salary and get a decent prospect back. They would have to either eat contract or take a nothing burger prospect for him. Fortunately I know Mel better then Mel knows Mel so I know your plan you said mo will keep helesley and take a comp pick for him in the offseason so when the cards don’t offer him QO you will say oh that’s what I said Mo would have done bloom is the one who didn’t offer him a QO so you will say you weren’t wrong and if they do you will say you were right. But you are wrong you will be wrong but congrats on already setting yourself up for weaseling out of admitting you were wrong like you usually do. I know Mel better than Mel knows Mel

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 23:11 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 21:15 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:36 pm

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Agree. This is Mo’s last stand. That ego and pride will compel him in the ways you described. For better or worse.

They won’t offer a QO

Sure they will - if he isn't moved.
He's 31.
He won't risk his chance at a multi-year contract by taking the QO.
STL knows that.

Helsley is an interesting case on a QO. With having a down year, what type of contract is he going to get as a FA? 3 years? At what AAV? $12M? $13M? I can't imagine he gets more than 3/$39M. Now, take $21M from the Cards and you are betting you can make another $18M the next 2 years. Probably he should take the $39M, but hard to say. Unfortunately for the players, these situation are like black jack games, they have to play first. We have seen several players over the years that would have been better off taking the QO since they ended up on 1 year deals for less. Helsley could very well be one of them if he does not finish out the year strongly. The Cards should sell though to make the point moot.

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Said the same since last season

But no comp pick since BDWJr will never okay a $21+M QO.

If he's kept, then Cards get nada, zilch, zippo and Mo has once again screwed the pooch.

Goldfan wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 15:32 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

Maton has more value with Cards if they keep winning than anything they’ll receive back in a trade…..do we need more middling AA roster fill?

And this is why I laugh when people in here want to deal players like Donovan and Maton.

We've seen Mo's returns, they're nobodies!

I'd ink Maton to a two year extension, Donny to a five year deal.

Deal Helsley, Matz, Fedde, Noot, ect......

82birds wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 14:57 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

thx.
saw that earlier on MLBTR.
teams certainly SHOULD BE interested in Maton, at least, I would think

Welcome birds'

Unless the return is solid, I'd rather ink Maton to a two year deal.

When thinking about this trade deadline I think about 2011 when we traded Colby Rasmus to Toronto for pitching. In my opinion this year we need to do what Toronto did in 2011. Find a trade partner that wants to trade us a young good OF for Hels Maton and Matz or something similar. We are not contenders. Our bullpen might not be the best but those pieces could help a contender get to the WS.
Same with Nootbar.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2025 00:29 am

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 23:11 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 21:15 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:36 pm

Melville wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 20:31 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 12:16 pm Cardinals lefty Steven Matz has drawn some trade interest as the July 31 deadline inches closer, reports Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (video link, bullpen talk beginning around the 4:10 mark).

“There are a handful of teams at least poking around on Matz,” per Goold.

He adds that the Cardinals will also likely be open to offers on righty Phil Maton but would need a very strong offer to trade closer Ryan Helsley, who could receive a qualifying offer if he’s not moved.

I have been correctly analyzing and explaining since last October that if STL is within 5 games of the division lead at the deadline, Mo would probably prefer to keep Helsley and take the comp pick in the off-season.
And that, of course, would mean offering a QO.
Which would be declined.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

Agree. This is Mo’s last stand. That ego and pride will compel him in the ways you described. For better or worse.

They won’t offer a QO

Sure they will - if he isn't moved.
He's 31.
He won't risk his chance at a multi-year contract by taking the QO.
STL knows that.

Helsley is an interesting case on a QO. With having a down year, what type of contract is he going to get as a FA? 3 years? At what AAV? $12M? $13M? I can't imagine he gets more than 3/$39M. Now, take $21M from the Cards and you are betting you can make another $18M the next 2 years. Probably he should take the $39M, but hard to say. Unfortunately for the players, these situation are like black jack games, they have to play first. We have seen several players over the years that would have been better off taking the QO since they ended up on 1 year deals for less. Helsley could very well be one of them if he does not finish out the year strongly. The Cards should sell though to make the point moot.

This is Helsey's first and last chance for a multi-year high dollar contract.
And MLB contracts are 100% guaranteed.
He is in line for a deal worth over 40M - probably closer to 45.
No player is going to throw away that type of lifetime financial security.
Particularly a relief pitcher.
He would decline the QO - risk of injury next year, risk of declining effectiveness, risk of entering market a year older: all powerful incentives to grab the brass ring now.
STL knows that.
IF not traded this month, STL will offer a QO.
They would highly value the comp pick because their current model requires draft capital.
I have analyzed this perfectly since last October - and everything so far has unfolded precisely as I said it would.
I know Mo better than Mo knows Mo, which makes this very easy.
If within 5 games of a post-season spot and playing well at the deadline, STL will keep Hesley and offer the QO later (barring injury, of course).
If not seeing a competitive opportunity to reach the post season, they will trade him.

Clubmaker2 wrote: ↑18 Jul 2025 23:18 pm and dont sometimes the team and player have an agreement the player wont be taking it....

Yes, of course.