Four players I don't see the Cardinals trading at the deadline

[Futuregm2]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

He’s been what we expected him to be for the most part. He’s a defensive first SS with a highly unique arm who’s average offensively and can hit an occasional HR. He doesn’t embarrass himself at the plate.

I wouldn’t deal him unless you’re completely blown away by an offer.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Trade the 25 year old lefty showing promise who hits 96 on the gun, over the unathletic, position less, powerless guy guy…

Thank god you aren’t making decisions.

.Maybe so/ I just said I don't see the Cardinals trading Burleson at the deadline. Do you?

I could. In another thread I suggested trading him to Toronto for Ricky Tiedemann. If I could turn a left handed hitter (we have too many) that doesn't play a premium position into a 22 year old pitcher with high K rates- I wouldn't blink. It doesn't have to be this trade, it's just a specific example of a type of trade that would be a definite win for the Cardinals.

[Shady]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

With Wetherholt coming along. If Mo can get a future top of the rotation pitcher and a righty hitting OF slugger that's close to the bigs in a 2 for 1 deal for Winn. Maybe they are already MLB players. Why wouldn't he?

[woofy25]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

He’s been what we expected him to be for the most part. He’s a defensive first SS with a highly unique arm who’s average offensively and can hit an occasional HR. He doesn’t embarrass himself at the plate.

I wouldn’t deal him unless you’re completely blown away by an offer.

You are highly valuing SS defense which is all good. It's important, I just don't see Winn as a face of the franchise type player. Considering he is the only guy on the MLB roster you wouldn't move, it seems like you feel he is that. It's interesting to me that his defense is so highly valued by some, b/c his production at the plate does not scream immovable.
The Cardinals should be good enough offensively for him to hit where he belongs in the order, but of course, they are not

[woofy25]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

With Wetherholt coming along. If Mo can get a future top of the rotation pitcher and a righty hitting OF slugger that's close to the bigs in a 2 for 1 deal for Winn. Maybe they are already MLB players. Why wouldn't he?

I believe you are vastly overestimating Winn's worth. I don't see any team offering that in return for a below league average hitter, even if he does only commit three errors a season. IDK, maybe it's me. I'm completely open to being wrong on Winn. I did think he'd be more of an offensive threat at this point. Maybe the offense is coming in his mid 20's. That's fair.

[Futuregm2]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

He’s been what we expected him to be for the most part. He’s a defensive first SS with a highly unique arm who’s average offensively and can hit an occasional HR. He doesn’t embarrass himself at the plate.

I wouldn’t deal him unless you’re completely blown away by an offer.

You are highly valuing SS defense which is all good. It's important, I just don't see Winn as a face of the franchise type player. Considering he is the only guy on the MLB roster you wouldn't move, it seems like you feel he is that. It's interesting to me that his defense is so highly valued by some, b/c his production at the plate does not scream immovable.
The Cardinals should be good enough offensively for him to hit where he belongs in the order, but of course, they are not

Winn has the highest fWAR on the team. He only has 2 errors in the first half this season, his fielding% of .994 is the best among SS’s. And SS is a spot where defense is critical. And his arm is so special that it allows them to make DP’s and outs that 99% of the SS’s out there would never be able to make. So yes, I am highly valuing it. Plus again I just don’t see his bat as a “problem”. And given his age, cost, and the chance that he can improve with the bat, I wouldn’t deal him unless I’m blown away. I see him as a Renteria like hitter with better defense, that’s a very valuable player.

[Shady]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

He’s been what we expected him to be for the most part. He’s a defensive first SS with a highly unique arm who’s average offensively and can hit an occasional HR. He doesn’t embarrass himself at the plate.

I wouldn’t deal him unless you’re completely blown away by an offer.

You are highly valuing SS defense which is all good. It's important, I just don't see Winn as a face of the franchise type player. Considering he is the only guy on the MLB roster you wouldn't move, it seems like you feel he is that. It's interesting to me that his defense is so highly valued by some, b/c his production at the plate does not scream immovable.
The Cardinals should be good enough offensively for him to hit where he belongs in the order, but of course, they are not

Winn has the highest fWAR on the team. He only has 2 errors in the first half this season, his fielding% of .994 is the best among SS’s. And SS is a spot where defense is critical. And his arm is so special that it allows them to make DP’s and outs that 99% of the SS’s out there would never be able to make. So yes, I am highly valuing it. Plus again I just don’t see his bat as a “problem”. And given his age, cost, and the chance that he can improve with the bat, I wouldn’t deal him unless I’m blown away. I see him as a Renteria like hitter with better defense, that’s a very valuable player.

Right now, Winn is a # 8 -type hitter. And that's OK because of his defense. But does Wetherholt make Winn available if the Cardinals can plug some huge holes by trading Winn? ex a #2 type starting pitcher and a MOTO outfielder.

[woofy25]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

He’s been what we expected him to be for the most part. He’s a defensive first SS with a highly unique arm who’s average offensively and can hit an occasional HR. He doesn’t embarrass himself at the plate.

I wouldn’t deal him unless you’re completely blown away by an offer.

You are highly valuing SS defense which is all good. It's important, I just don't see Winn as a face of the franchise type player. Considering he is the only guy on the MLB roster you wouldn't move, it seems like you feel he is that. It's interesting to me that his defense is so highly valued by some, b/c his production at the plate does not scream immovable.
The Cardinals should be good enough offensively for him to hit where he belongs in the order, but of course, they are not

Winn has the highest fWAR on the team. He only has 2 errors in the first half this season, his fielding% of .994 is the best among SS’s. And SS is a spot where defense is critical. And his arm is so special that it allows them to make DP’s and outs that 99% of the SS’s out there would never be able to make. So yes, I am highly valuing it. Plus again I just don’t see his bat as a “problem”. And given his age, cost, and the chance that he can improve with the bat, I wouldn’t deal him unless I’m blown away. I see him as a Renteria like hitter with better defense, that’s a very valuable player.

Completely fair take, and I agree with your defensive assessment. He just can't be hitting 2nd. And he has a long way to go to reach Edgar Renteria's level at the plate, at least in terms of his peak Cardinals seasons.

[Futuregm2]

Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

He’s been what we expected him to be for the most part. He’s a defensive first SS with a highly unique arm who’s average offensively and can hit an occasional HR. He doesn’t embarrass himself at the plate.

I wouldn’t deal him unless you’re completely blown away by an offer.

You are highly valuing SS defense which is all good. It's important, I just don't see Winn as a face of the franchise type player. Considering he is the only guy on the MLB roster you wouldn't move, it seems like you feel he is that. It's interesting to me that his defense is so highly valued by some, b/c his production at the plate does not scream immovable.
The Cardinals should be good enough offensively for him to hit where he belongs in the order, but of course, they are not

Winn has the highest fWAR on the team. He only has 2 errors in the first half this season, his fielding% of .994 is the best among SS’s. And SS is a spot where defense is critical. And his arm is so special that it allows them to make DP’s and outs that 99% of the SS’s out there would never be able to make. So yes, I am highly valuing it. Plus again I just don’t see his bat as a “problem”. And given his age, cost, and the chance that he can improve with the bat, I wouldn’t deal him unless I’m blown away. I see him as a Renteria like hitter with better defense, that’s a very valuable player.

Completely fair take, and I agree with your defensive assessment. He just can't be hitting 2nd. And he has a long way to go to reach Edgar Renteria's level at the plate, at least in terms of his peak Cardinals seasons.

I would agree, I’d rather have Winn hitting 7th or so in the lineup. Through his first 7 seasons in the MLB Renteria had a .716 OPS/87 OPS+ with an average of 24 2B 8 HR 52 RBI 80 R. So far Winn is .688/91 OPS+ and that’s weighted down by 2023 still considering he was .730/102 last year and .695/95 this year. And last year he had 32 2B 15 HR 57 RBI 85 R. He’s probably on pace for similar counting numbers this year, maybe slightly down.

[Jatalk]

Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

I’m not sure much is going to happen at the trade deadline. I look for more transactions in offseason. As far as the trade deadline the players you mention are probably the ones that could result in a more impactful trade but I don’t think that is wise. I think Burleson could go.

Otherwise I see the trades focused on players with expiring contracts of which Helsley is the most impactful.

It’s going to be sort of go him and boring most likely.

[hullie]

Shady quit being dumb. No one on the 40 man is untouchable

[scoutyjones2]

In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).

Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.

I deal any and all. None are untouchable

[rightthinker4]

Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Why should Burleson be untouchable?

Because his love for him knows no bounds. The numbers mean nothing. Only Burly and his calves.

[Shady]

On the subject of trade possibilities. Will the Cardinals consider trading Gorman and Walker at the deadline? Or should they?

[Youboughtit]

Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

Donovan has 1 year left before he will get $20m per. Your ready to extend him as a no power LF?