T. O Neil update

[riff raff]

yeah but, yeah but, but mo really sucks

I can’t imagine how some of these posters function in real life on a daily basis??

It's going to be tough for some of them after Mo retires.
Of course there will always be the memories

[cardstatman]

O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.

Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.

I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.

[Cusecards]

yeah but, yeah but, but mo really sucks

I can’t imagine how some of these posters function in real life on a daily basis??

It's going to be tough for some of them after Mo retires.
Of course there will always be the memories

His recent record has been a bit on the shaky side.
But for his entire tenure I think he has done a solid job.
Of course just my opinion but the obsession with hating on the guy is a bit creepy.
LOL...and with Bloom already in place continuing to hate on him this season is beyond creepy.

[Goldfan]

yeah but, yeah but, but mo really sucks

I can’t imagine how some of these posters function in real life on a daily basis??

It's going to be tough for some of them after Mo retires.
Of course there will always be the memories

His recent record has been a bit on the shaky side.
But for his entire tenure I think he has done a solid job.
Of course just my opinion but the obsession with hating on the guy is a bit creepy.
LOL...and with Bloom already in place continuing to hate on him this season is beyond creepy.

Cuse, you don’t enjoy an occasional TO update??

[makesnosense]

O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.

Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.

I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.

Mo didn’t draft ONeil. He should have kept Gonzalez. And O’Neil isn’t good.

[ClassicO]

Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.

2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.

Don't confuse them with facts!

The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR

Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of

Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.

Which yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.

For someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…

[cardstatman]

O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.

Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.

I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.

Mo didn’t draft ONeil. He should have kept Gonzalez. And O’Neil isn’t good.

True. Mo did not draft O'Neill but he did trade for him. Gonzalez was a very MLB average pitcher.

O'Neill was a above average player. Guys with a .781 career OPS do not grow on trees. His problem was he didn't play enough. If you have a good 4th OF, that matters little.

[Goldfan]

Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.

2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.

Don't confuse them with facts!

The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR

Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of

Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.

Which yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.

For someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…

Overall performance???? What does a 3.2 tell you???
Winn has rather respectable WAR…..and it’s mostly his defense…..it tells you nothing. You still need to look at an offensive stat line

[makesnosense]

O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.

Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.

I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.

Mo didn’t draft ONeil. He should have kept Gonzalez. And O’Neil isn’t good.

True. Mo did not draft O'Neill but he did trade for him. Gonzalez was a very MLB average pitcher.

O'Neill was a above average player. Guys with a .781 career OPS do not grow on trees. His problem was he didn't play enough. If you have a good 4th OF, that matters little.

ONeil was or is not an above average player. And availability is a needed part of a players makeup.

[RamFan08NY]

Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.

2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.

Don't confuse them with facts!

The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR

Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of

Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.

Which yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.

You don't need WAR to say TO had a good year in 2021 with 34 dingers and GG defense. He was really good that year, but he could only do it once.

"You don't need WAR"
Absolutely correct.
It is a fiction.

WAR = imagine if?...... it's no different than when a player gets thrown out stealing, and then the hitter 2 batters later hits a solo homerun. You always here some say "that caught steeling cost them a run".

Yea. Imagine IF.

[ClassicO]

Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.

2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.

Don't confuse them with facts!

The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR

Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of

Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.

Which yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.

For someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…

Overall performance???? What does a 3.2 tell you???
Winn has rather respectable WAR…..and it’s mostly his defense…..it tells you nothing. You still need to look at an offensive stat line

Like Melville, you use general statements without proof. Just words.
If I’m wrong, please just tell me how WAR is calculated. I’ll wait..

[Melville]

Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.

2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.

Don't confuse them with facts!

The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR

Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of

Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.

Which yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.

For someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…

A statistic is a defined numeric data point.
By definition, WAR is an estimate.
Words have meanings.
WAR, being an ESTIMATE cannot be a STATISTIC.
A STATISTIC, being a numeric value, cannot be an ESTIMATE.
Not hard, really.
WAR is a fictional invention - as openly admitted by the originators.

[Goldfan]

Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.

2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.

Don't confuse them with facts!

The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR

Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of

Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.

Which yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.

For someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…

Overall performance???? What does a 3.2 tell you???
Winn has rather respectable WAR…..and it’s mostly his defense…..it tells you nothing. You still need to look at an offensive stat line

Like Melville, you use general statements without proof. Just words.
If I’m wrong, please just tell me how WAR is calculated. I’ll wait..

Again tell me what 3.2 represents??
Can you tell me the players BA, HR, RBI, R, OBP, OPS……all those hitting stats maybe terrible BUT the player maybe a great base runner and fielder
Who knows……
And Mel nailed it above……stats are actual events produced on the field of play. WAR is assumptions and estimates

[Carp4Cy]

SMH

The things the board has resorted to arguing over....Its gonna be a long week with no baseball.

[ClassicO]

WAR is an estimate, but based on many statistics. I've used it for the best estimate of a player's overall value.
Not just hitting. Also defense and baserunning. Add adjustments for the venue and position.

What do you guys, Melville and Goldfan, think is the best statistic (or more) you guys argue that gives the best estimate of a total player worth, since that is what we are looking for when comparing players?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/abou ... tion.shtml
WAR for position players has six components: Batting Runs, Baserunning Runs, Runs added or lost due to Grounding into Double Plays, Fielding Runs, Positional Adjustment Runs, Replacement level Runs (based on playing time).
All are based on calculations. EX: Baserunning: Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing, and Non-Basestealing baserunning which includes items like 1st to 3rd on singles, outs on the bases, tagging up on fly balls, scoring from third on a ground ball, etc.

Show me yours...

[Melville]

WAR is an estimate, but based on many statistics. I've used it for the best estimate of a player's overall value.
Not just hitting. Also defense and baserunning. Add adjustments for the venue and position.

What do you guys, Melville and Goldfan, think is the best statistic (or more) you guys argue that gives the best estimate of a total player worth, since that is what we are looking for when comparing players?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/abou ... tion.shtml
WAR for position players has six components: Batting Runs, Baserunning Runs, Runs added or lost due to Grounding into Double Plays, Fielding Runs, Positional Adjustment Runs, Replacement level Runs (based on playing time).
All are based on calculations. EX: Baserunning: Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing, and Non-Basestealing baserunning which includes items like 1st to 3rd on singles, outs on the bases, tagging up on fly balls, scoring from third on a ground ball, etc.

Show me yours...

Maybe tomorrow.
I have a reputation for being long.