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Problem with the trade deadline - you could get a “one and done” in return. I don’t want rentals in return, but some prospects to build on. So - to me, the draft is more important

2011 was an exception - we hit gold at the trade deadline, and we’re in the hunt. I think the holes on this team are just too many to go for it this season

The Nard wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 09:37 am Problem with the trade deadline - you could get a “one and done” in return. I don’t want rentals in return, but some prospects to build on. So - to me, the draft is more important

Let’s remember he said to this rebuild. That means this and next year. I don’t see the draft helping in that area. JJ withstanding.

Yes , but the draft is really for the future, 2-4 years out. They still need to keep an eye on that era.

I’d expect JJ to be called up this fall, and start having an impact next spring.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 09:09 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 08:57 am 6 from last year's draft are already on MLB teams

I saw that the other day too scouty

I'd like to see JJW up here no later than Sept. 1st as long as he's doing well at Memphis (3 GP: .364 .417 .909 1.326).

I wanted him up here to start the year.

The Nard wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 09:45 am Yes , but the draft is really for the future, 2-4 years out. They still need to keep an eye on that era.

I’d expect JJ to be called up this fall, and start having an impact next spring.

Oh I agree. The farm, by way of the draft, optimally, would be a revolving door yearly for ready prospects. Then is merely year to year.

But till we get to that proficiency, a FA sometimes cures what ails.

Two years ago....the Royals picked up Cole Ragans in a deal for Chapman at the deadline. That guy is an ace when healthy. Then they signed Wacha and Lugo and now they have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. So both the draft and deadline are important. I could see Matz, Helsley, Gorman, Arenado, Pozo, Fedde and Maton bringing some quality prospects that are close to the bigs. With Herrera going to the OF and Wetherholt, Donavan, Winn, Contraras in the infield and Bernal and Crooks close at catcher....we no longer need Gorman, Pozo and Arenado. Burleson is the other OF and let Church, Scott II and Noot figure out CF. What say the masses????

Melville wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 08:42 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 05:13 am I'm conflicted.
Draft we have the #5 pick
Can't mess that up.
However, trade deadline is huge.
What gets traded and what we get in return.
I'd say the trade deadline is most important.
Gotta get something for Helsley and unload Arenado.
Ideally Fedde too.

The draft is a lottery.
Huge level of uncertainty.
Zero guarantee the #5 will prove to be any better than other picks STL will make today.
The trade deadline - and the offseason - offer more reliable data and more insightful perspective than the draft does.
That does not diminish the importance of the draft.
But placing more confidence in the draft than making CORRECT BASEBALL DECISIONS year round is certain to lead to disappointment.

Probably depends on what we get via trade though.
I mean, if it's prospects what's the diff.
I read they may go after the Braves catcher.
That could be a HR move.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 09:50 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 09:09 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 08:57 am 6 from last year's draft are already on MLB teams

I saw that the other day too scouty

I'd like to see JJW up here no later than Sept. 1st as long as he's doing well at Memphis (3 GP: .364 .417 .909 1.326).

I wanted him up here to start the year.

Or at least by now (ASB)!

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 09:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 09:09 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 08:57 am 6 from last year's draft are already on MLB teams

I saw that the other day too scouty

I'd like to see JJW up here no later than Sept. 1st as long as he's doing well at Memphis (3 GP: .364 .417 .909 1.326).

Facts. I can’t argue them. That is a lot it seems, however the number of players in the minors three plus years must be large compared.

College players, like JJW, are already men BDog w/three-four years of high level competition/training under their belts.

IF the college drafted player shows by domination he's too good for AA or AAA, then bringing him up at age 22/23 isn't too soon at all.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 07:30 am I think that #5 pick is THE most important thing. If they had dealt Hesley and Fedde back in December they might have got (combined) a prospect equal to what they should get today in #5.

But now their trade chips are all showing cracks and the only returns will be longer shots and lower ceilings to what we should get in #5. IMO

ain't that the truth?!

I would certainly put the “deadline” well behind the “offseason” in terms of importance.
Deadline has more in the line of “rentals” available plus no free agents.
Draft is always important but you are looking at 2-4 years down the road for impacts.

The trade deadline and it’s not even close the cardinals aren’t going to trade anyone who will bring back much. I know people have fooled themselves into believing helsley will bring back a good return but he won’t. He won’t bring any high end prospects back he’s having a down year and Mo waited too late should have trade him in the offseason now they will get a couple of lottery prospects and if very lucky a middle to the back end of the rotation starting prospect. They aren’t going to get much for the players you listed why would any team in their right mind give up good prospects for rentals who aren’t very good

82birds wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 11:05 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 07:30 am I think that #5 pick is THE most important thing. If they had dealt Hesley and Fedde back in December they might have got (combined) a prospect equal to what they should get today in #5.

But now their trade chips are all showing cracks and the only returns will be longer shots and lower ceilings to what we should get in #5. IMO

ain't that the truth?!

So don't you think that it also works to where if a trade was made last off-season for some suspects/prospects to Cards, for Nado or Fedde or Lizard Puke, that those suspects/prospects would show cracks?

Wasn't this year about learning about the current suspects/prospects?

Are any worth building around or you'd pay to see play? I'm not impressed and would put em all on the trading block.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2025 11:06 am The trade deadline and it’s not even close the cardinals aren’t going to trade anyone who will bring back much. I know people have fooled themselves into believing helsley will bring back a good return but he won’t. He won’t bring any high end prospects back he’s having a down year and Mo waited too late should have trade him in the offseason now they will get a couple of lottery prospects and if very lucky a middle to the back end of the rotation starting prospect. They aren’t going to get much for the players you listed why would any team in their right mind give up good prospects for rentals who aren’t very good

I meant the draft is the most important and it’s not close the trade deadline will land the cardinals a bunch of meh

Well, not sure our trade deadline is looking as good as it did at last year's trade deadline and offseason. Who do we have?

Arenado - probably not getting much for him at this point. I'd guess salary relief.

Helsley - I think you still get something decent for him, but less team control than last year or the offseason means you're not getting as much as last year.

Fedde - lol

Maton - I think you could get a decent return for him, but he's still only under control for the rest of the season. He's just a reliever, though, so wouldn't expect much.

Romero - under control for next year. Maybe something decent to be had. Also just a reliever.

Am I missing any of the obvious ones? I'm sure there's a player or two who could be traded that isn't obvious, but I don't see any huge deadline returns. So I'm saying that our first pick, especially if we go college pitcher in the first round, is more important.

And not to continue beating a dead horse, but if the Cardinals would have just been more honest with themselves and committed to this "reset", they'd be getting a lot more value out of some of those guys above and in a much better position to be competitive in 2026 than it's looking right now.

MOST important - MLB competent ownership, FO, manager, coaches, and support facilities and staff. Incompetent people leading and teaching the "future" has never and will never be successful.