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TopofthePerch wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 04:09 am Come on you guys can't be this stupid. There was obviously a long rain delay. This is very common because of the warm up then starting so late that pitchers don't go long.

You can't fix stupid.

It was 71 at game time with most of each dugout wearing hoodies…….
Gray can’t go against the Cubs and is gone after 5 and 70 pitches against the NATS
IDK…..is the objective to make Gray look good and get him wins OR take the mound when you’re playing the first place Cubs and your team needs you

He leads all Cardinal pitchers in innings pitched and is on pace to pitch 184 innings, the most innings since his 2023 campaign with Minnesota when he also logged 184 innings and placed second in the Cy Young voting. The last time he pitched more innings was 10 years ago when he logged 208 innings pitched. He's on pace to win the most games ever in his career with his best won/loss record -- 16-5. His two-year numbers with the Cards look like the typical really great pitcher of the 1960s -- 22-13, 271 innings, 316 strikeouts, and a 3.71 ERA.

At 35, perhaps it's the judicious use that's producing the nice results.

I'd rather him admit that he doesn't have anything left today than push through and blow a game.

"You try to just do what you can to conserve energy, or whatever it is that you’re trying to conserve,” Gray explained, acknowledging that he didn’t have his best stuff. “I just told Oli after the fifth, I was like, ‘I’m done. I have nothing. I just don’t have anything.’ And then the bullpen did an incredible job of holding it down, and we added one.”


I'm glad he admitted he had nothing rather than trying to go another inning and get lit up.

I don't understand why they changed the rotation to maximize his starts before the ASG, but didn't do the same to get him at least one start against the Cubs (who they just played 7 games in a two week span).

bakker wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 06:16 am

bgwinn01 wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 23:11 pm This is fatigue protection. He is pitching again later this week.

I agree. That seemed to be an obvious possibility. Should pitch Sunday. And Friday and Saturday could be a lot of bullpen use. Friday maybe even a bullpen game.

Why wouldn't he pitch Sunday? Its his normal day.

freed5179 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:02 am I don't understand why they changed the rotation to maximize his starts before the ASG, but didn't do the same to get him at least one start against the Cubs (who they just played 7 games in a two week span).

Because Marmol is incompetent.

TopofthePerch wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 04:09 am Come on you guys can't be this stupid. There was obviously a long rain delay. This is very common because of the warm up then starting so late that pitchers don't go long.

The delay was before the game, not during. Why would you begin wstmuos knowing a delay is happening. (And yes, they have that information.) Makes no sense.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:40 am

bakker wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 06:16 am

bgwinn01 wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 23:11 pm This is fatigue protection. He is pitching again later this week.

I agree. That seemed to be an obvious possibility. Should pitch Sunday. And Friday and Saturday could be a lot of bullpen use. Friday maybe even a bullpen game.

Why wouldn't he pitch Sunday? Its his normal day.

Who said he wouldn't? Leaving the game when he did probably makes him even stronger for that start. Possibly even more important due to what could be a lot of BP use in the the immediate preceding games.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 22:39 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 22:38 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 22:33 pm 70 pitches? That guy is soft for a supposed ace.

Far from soft. Played football in HS
Tough competitive player.

Maybe we just have a moron for a manager then.

Or not. If Sonny told him he didn't have anything left, should Oli have insisted he go out the next inning and give one for the team? I don't think that would have worked.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:45 am

freed5179 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:02 am I don't understand why they changed the rotation to maximize his starts before the ASG, but didn't do the same to get him at least one start against the Cubs (who they just played 7 games in a two week span).

Because Marmol is incompetent.

^^^THIS^^^

Managerial Malpractice not to have set up his rotation weeks in advance where Gray would face the scrubbies.

To throw the scrubs BOTH Mikolas & Fedde, yet another blackmark to add to his resume of incompetency and why he has to be fired at seasons end.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 22:33 pm 70 pitches? That guy is soft for a supposed ace.

He's 5' 10" and weighs 190. Every pitch seems to be max effort. He seems to virtually always meet his starts; averaging 29 starts since 2018. I don't think he's very soft.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 12:00 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:45 am

freed5179 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:02 am I don't understand why they changed the rotation to maximize his starts before the ASG, but didn't do the same to get him at least one start against the Cubs (who they just played 7 games in a two week span).

Because Marmol is incompetent.

^^^THIS^^^

Managerial Malpractice not to have set up his rotation weeks in advance where Gray would face the scrubbies.

To throw the scrubs BOTH Mikolas & Fedde, yet another blackmark to add to his resume of incompetency and why he has to be fired at seasons end.

Sonny gets a start every 5 days and the team has won 9 of his last 11 starts. All wins have the same value. Sure, we'd love to have him beat the Cubbies. Mikolas and Fedde could just as easily lose to Pittsburgh, the Guardians etc. There is nothing set in stone about competition with the Cubbies. The June 18 rain out screwed with Sonny's starts.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 12:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 12:00 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:45 am

freed5179 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:02 am I don't understand why they changed the rotation to maximize his starts before the ASG, but didn't do the same to get him at least one start against the Cubs (who they just played 7 games in a two week span).

Because Marmol is incompetent.

^^^THIS^^^

Managerial Malpractice not to have set up his rotation weeks in advance where Gray would face the scrubbies.

To throw the scrubs BOTH Mikolas & Fedde, yet another blackmark to add to his resume of incompetency and why he has to be fired at seasons end.

Sonny gets a start every 5 days and the team has won 9 of his last 11 starts. All wins have the same value. Sure, we'd love to have him beat the Cubbies. Mikolas and Fedde could just as easily lose to Pittsburgh, the Guardians etc. There is nothing set in stone about competition with the Cubbies. The June 18 rain out screwed with Sonny's starts.

No they really don't have "the same value" huge.

A win vs the scrubs guarantees you shave a game off their lead.

A win vs the Nats while the scrubs are winning too equals a push and game off the schedule.

This was yet another managerial screw up by Oli, showing his incompetency yet again and why he's unqualified to be a ML manager.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 12:14 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 12:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 12:00 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:45 am

freed5179 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 10:02 am I don't understand why they changed the rotation to maximize his starts before the ASG, but didn't do the same to get him at least one start against the Cubs (who they just played 7 games in a two week span).

Because Marmol is incompetent.

^^^THIS^^^

Managerial Malpractice not to have set up his rotation weeks in advance where Gray would face the scrubbies.

To throw the scrubs BOTH Mikolas & Fedde, yet another blackmark to add to his resume of incompetency and why he has to be fired at seasons end.

Sonny gets a start every 5 days and the team has won 9 of his last 11 starts. All wins have the same value. Sure, we'd love to have him beat the Cubbies. Mikolas and Fedde could just as easily lose to Pittsburgh, the Guardians etc. There is nothing set in stone about competition with the Cubbies. The June 18 rain out screwed with Sonny's starts.

No they really don't have "the same value" huge.

A win vs the scrubs guarantees you shave a game off their lead.

A win vs the Nats while the scrubs are winning too equals a push and game off the schedule.

This was yet another managerial screw up by Oli, showing his incompetency yet again and why he's unqualified to be a ML manager.

Go back and figure out what the June 18th rainout did to Sonny's start plan. It's impossible to stick to a plan screwed by Mother Nature. Do you postpone starts to ensure that he meets the Cubbies? Bull chit. Every win is important. You take them when you can.

Our problem isn't saving Sonny for Cubbie games; our problem is not having enough starters who can guarantee us a good start.