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rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:45 am Been that way since Goldy & NADO started their decline, no star players.

S. Gray was a high quality add as was Maton, WillyC has been solid, Libby shows promise and Helsley is a solid closer.

Behind that you've got some good, complimentary players like Donny, Winn and Burleson who need to be your fifth-seventh best position players if you want to be a true WS contender.

This is correct in my opinion also. This team is much like the Cardinals in the 50's, but they always had Musial. Every decade has had a star player. I don't see one star player on this team and actually Donovan was the token Cardinal to make the All-Star team so the Cardinals were represented.

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:50 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:45 am Been that way since Goldy & NADO started their decline, no star players.

S. Gray was a high quality add as was Maton, WillyC has been solid, Libby shows promise and Helsley is a solid closer.

Behind that you've got some good, complimentary players like Donny, Winn and Burleson who need to be your fifth-seventh best position players if you want to be a true WS contender.

This is correct in my opinion also. This team is much like the Cardinals in the 50's, but they always had Musial. Every decade has had a star player. I don't see one star player on this team and actually Donovan was the token Cardinal to make the All-Star team so the Cardinals were represented.

Happy belated BDay OR

And you're right, even in the 70's they had Gibby & Brock & Torre & Simba & Hernandez..................

This team has no one for the second straight season.

For those who are angry and stressed out because the team is not so great…

There are other teams who are playing better if you really need to watch a consistent winner to feel good and avoid the unnecessary stress.

My grandfather was a total bandwagon fan. One day, back in the 90s he suddenly decided he was a Braves fan because the Cardinals sucked. Even swapped out his old hat. I thought it was lame and irritating especially since we watched Cards games together.

But he never (whined) and moaned. Just said he didn’t like watching bad baseball and had a good time watching another team for awhile.

On a personal note, I still hate the Braves to this day because of that!

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:26 am The current Cardinal team just doesn't have good enough talent. PERIOD!

What part of “reset” do you not understand?

And besides Liberatore what have we learned about the collection of players we have that we already should have known?

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:52 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:50 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:45 am Been that way since Goldy & NADO started their decline, no star players.

S. Gray was a high quality add as was Maton, WillyC has been solid, Libby shows promise and Helsley is a solid closer.

Behind that you've got some good, complimentary players like Donny, Winn and Burleson who need to be your fifth-seventh best position players if you want to be a true WS contender.

This is correct in my opinion also. This team is much like the Cardinals in the 50's, but they always had Musial. Every decade has had a star player. I don't see one star player on this team and actually Donovan was the token Cardinal to make the All-Star team so the Cardinals were represented.

Happy belated BDay OR

And you're right, even in the 70's they had Gibby & Brock & Torre & Simba & Hernandez..................

This team has no one for the second straight season.

the 70's was a tweener decade. established stars aging out, and newcomers just getting their feet wet. it was bad baseball

throw in some bad trades, and...

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:53 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:26 am The current Cardinal team just doesn't have good enough talent. PERIOD!

What part of “reset” do you not understand?

This was not a "reset", you were conned. If it were a "reset" some of the current pitching staff would be gone and younger pitchers would have been brought up. Also, if it were a "reset" Gorman would have gotten 500 AB's as mentioned last winter.

Again, you and so many other were conned.

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:58 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:52 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:50 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:45 am Been that way since Goldy & NADO started their decline, no star players.

S. Gray was a high quality add as was Maton, WillyC has been solid, Libby shows promise and Helsley is a solid closer.

Behind that you've got some good, complimentary players like Donny, Winn and Burleson who need to be your fifth-seventh best position players if you want to be a true WS contender.

This is correct in my opinion also. This team is much like the Cardinals in the 50's, but they always had Musial. Every decade has had a star player. I don't see one star player on this team and actually Donovan was the token Cardinal to make the All-Star team so the Cardinals were represented.

Happy belated BDay OR

And you're right, even in the 70's they had Gibby & Brock & Torre & Simba & Hernandez..................

This team has no one for the second straight season.

the 70's was a tweener decade. established stars aging out, and newcomers just getting their feet wet. it was bad baseball

throw in some bad trades, and...

Really bad starting w/Old Man Busch screwing up w/S. Carlton and then J. Reuss!

BUT they had some star players as I pointed out.

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:01 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:53 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:26 am The current Cardinal team just doesn't have good enough talent. PERIOD!

What part of “reset” do you not understand?

This was not a "reset", you were conned. If it were a "reset" some of the current pitching staff would be gone and younger pitchers would have been brought up. Also, if it were a "reset" Gorman would have gotten 500 AB's as mentioned last winter.

Again, you and so many other were conned.

They weren't fooling anyone who knows what they're talking about.

Besides Liberatore what have we found about about these
players that we didn't already know about?

11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:58 am And besides Liberatore what have we learned about the collection of players we have that we already should have known?

Bingo…..smack on…..righto……these clueless idiot wouldn’t see a rat on their face chewing off their nose…..

11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:05 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:01 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:53 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:26 am The current Cardinal team just doesn't have good enough talent. PERIOD!

What part of “reset” do you not understand?

This was not a "reset", you were conned. If it were a "reset" some of the current pitching staff would be gone and younger pitchers would have been brought up. Also, if it were a "reset" Gorman would have gotten 500 AB's as mentioned last winter.

Again, you and so many other were conned.

They weren't fooling anyone who knows what they're talking about.

Besides Liberatore what have we found about about these
players that we didn't already know about?

found out that, with some regular playing time, Gorman and Burleson's bat plays

Herrera is NOT an everyday catcher

Fedde is not a keeper

Pallante is a serviceable SP (albeit prolly a 4/5 starter)

and still up in the air about a couple of other young'ens

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:45 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:05 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:01 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:53 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:26 am The current Cardinal team just doesn't have good enough talent. PERIOD!

What part of “reset” do you not understand?

This was not a "reset", you were conned. If it were a "reset" some of the current pitching staff would be gone and younger pitchers would have been brought up. Also, if it were a "reset" Gorman would have gotten 500 AB's as mentioned last winter.

Again, you and so many other were conned.

They weren't fooling anyone who knows what they're talking about.

Besides Liberatore what have we found about about these
players that we didn't already know about?

found out that, with some regular playing time, Gorman and Burleson's bat plays

Herrera is NOT an everyday catcher

Fedde is not a keeper

Pallante is a serviceable SP (albeit prolly a 4/5 starter)

and still up in the air about a couple of other young'ens

+1
A lot can still transpire b/4 ST 2026.

Why would a team that is well capitalized and had a great and loyal fanbase need a reset? Only because of bad decisions by management. I would not blame recent years on injuries- which are not the fault of management.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:49 am

hullie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:46 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:39 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:34 am I admitted that in April.

I did also, but it was so difficult for some to see it as it really would be.

Then why do you complain about them if you had low expectations?

Horse [shirt]. This is a reset. We got hot, everybody now wants a pennant. You guys change your emotions like I change underwear- daily.

C'mon...at best, every other day

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 10:06 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:49 am

hullie wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:46 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:39 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:34 am I admitted that in April.

I did also, but it was so difficult for some to see it as it really would be.

Then why do you complain about them if you had low expectations?

Horse [shirt]. This is a reset. We got hot, everybody now wants a pennant. You guys change your emotions like I change underwear- daily.

C'mon...at best, every other day

Yea I missed a chance there. I was gonna say every several days. Blew right by me.

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:45 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:05 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 09:01 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 08:53 am

OldRed wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 07:26 am The current Cardinal team just doesn't have good enough talent. PERIOD!

What part of “reset” do you not understand?

This was not a "reset", you were conned. If it were a "reset" some of the current pitching staff would be gone and younger pitchers would have been brought up. Also, if it were a "reset" Gorman would have gotten 500 AB's as mentioned last winter.

Again, you and so many other were conned.

They weren't fooling anyone who knows what they're talking about.

Besides Liberatore what have we found about about these
players that we didn't already know about?

found out that, with some regular playing time, Gorman and Burleson's bat plays

Herrera is NOT an everyday catcher

Fedde is not a keeper

Pallante is a serviceable SP (albeit prolly a 4/5 starter)

and still up in the air about a couple of other young'ens

You didn't know that going in?