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ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:07 am Walks to strikeouts are excellent but Caglianone is an example of what can go wrong. Leave him in the minors to get seasoning. Arenado is gone after next season.

Caglianone's walks to strikeouts immediately got upside down when he went from college to pro ball. Now he is chasing bad pitches.

Patience.

Law wrote:As a hitter, it’s close to a dead-pull approach, more power than hit, and while the strikeout rate is way down from last year, he doesn’t have very good command of the strike zone, swinging nearly 40 percent of the time pitchers go outside of the zone, often chasing pitches way out of the zone, and he doesn’t cut it down with two strikes.

fullswing wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 22:02 pm

Absolut wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 20:15 pm So. Where is he (upset)?

He didn’t sound upset to me, either.

russellhammond wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 19:54 pm So...who's spot would he take? Winn? Donovan? Arenado? Gorm...well, wait a minute now....

Gritty wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:08 am Nothing about his game jumps off the screen as anything close to "special" to me. He's kinda small, only 5' 10. No elite hit tool or power of any kind, obp is solid. But kinda screams "scrappy utility infielder" imo. I mean whenever our other over-hyped Top Prospects over the years were in AA & AAA they were at least putting up the numbers that kind of justified the discussion of bringing them up. And I'm more specifically talking about Walker, Gorman, Carlson, Burleson. And to put it kindly they at a minimum all have struggled mightily with the promotion and all had more minor league seasoning than Weatherholt has. And in hindsight one can argue all the recent examples were brought much too soon and needed more minor league reps. So why on earth does it make any sense to rush him up to the big leagues at this point? Dude is still much too green to justify a call up already. Let's learn from our prior mistakes and let the kid marinade in AA & AAA for another 2 yrs before we start that conversation.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:25 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:07 am Walks to strikeouts are excellent but Caglianone is an example of what can go wrong. Leave him in the minors to get seasoning. Arenado is gone after next season.

Caglianone's walks to strikeouts immediately got upside down when he went from college to pro ball. Now he is chasing bad pitches.

Patience.

Caglianone has ALWAYS chased bad pitches. That isn't new. That was literally the knock on him.

Here are some of Keith Law's scouting notes:

Law wrote:As a hitter, it’s close to a dead-pull approach, more power than hit, and while the strikeout rate is way down from last year, he doesn’t have very good command of the strike zone, swinging nearly 40 percent of the time pitchers go outside of the zone, often chasing pitches way out of the zone, and he doesn’t cut it down with two strikes.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:49 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:25 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:07 am Walks to strikeouts are excellent but Caglianone is an example of what can go wrong. Leave him in the minors to get seasoning. Arenado is gone after next season.

Caglianone's walks to strikeouts immediately got upside down when he went from college to pro ball. Now he is chasing bad pitches.

Patience.

Caglianone has ALWAYS chased bad pitches. That isn't new. That was literally the knock on him.

Here are some of Keith Law's scouting notes:

Law wrote:As a hitter, it’s close to a dead-pull approach, more power than hit, and while the strikeout rate is way down from last year, he doesn’t have very good command of the strike zone, swinging nearly 40 percent of the time pitchers go outside of the zone, often chasing pitches way out of the zone, and he doesn’t cut it down with two strikes.

Almost always. Final year in college 58 walks 26 strikeouts. I'm guessing teams were intentionally walking or pitching around. Aside from that he has always been upside down. Kind of surprising the Royals put him in the majors after such limited time in milb.

Gritty wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:08 am Nothing about his game jumps off the screen as anything close to "special" to me. He's kinda small, only 5' 10. No elite hit tool or power of any kind, obp is solid. But kinda screams "scrappy utility infielder" imo. I mean whenever our other over-hyped Top Prospects over the years were in AA & AAA they were at least putting up the numbers that kind of justified the discussion of bringing them up. And I'm more specifically talking about Walker, Gorman, Carlson, Burleson. And to put it kindly they at a minimum all have struggled mightily with the promotion and all had more minor league seasoning than Weatherholt has. And in hindsight one can argue all the recent examples were brought much too soon and needed more minor league reps. So why on earth does it make any sense to rush him up to the big leagues at this point? Dude is still much too green to justify a call up already. Let's learn from our prior mistakes and let the kid marinade in AA & AAA for another 2 yrs before we start that conversation.

Absolut wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 20:15 pm So. Where is he (upset)?

Gritty wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:08 am Nothing about his game jumps off the screen as anything close to "special" to me. He's kinda small, only 5' 10. No elite hit tool or power of any kind, obp is solid. But kinda screams "scrappy utility infielder" imo. I mean whenever our other over-hyped Top Prospects over the years were in AA & AAA they were at least putting up the numbers that kind of justified the discussion of bringing them up. And I'm more specifically talking about Walker, Gorman, Carlson, Burleson. And to put it kindly they at a minimum all have struggled mightily with the promotion and all had more minor league seasoning than Weatherholt has. And in hindsight one can argue all the recent examples were brought much too soon and needed more minor league reps. So why on earth does it make any sense to rush him up to the big leagues at this point? Dude is still much too green to justify a call up already. Let's learn from our prior mistakes and let the kid marinade in AA & AAA for another 2 yrs before we start that conversation.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 08:02 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:49 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:25 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:07 am Walks to strikeouts are excellent but Caglianone is an example of what can go wrong. Leave him in the minors to get seasoning. Arenado is gone after next season.

Caglianone's walks to strikeouts immediately got upside down when he went from college to pro ball. Now he is chasing bad pitches.

Patience.

Caglianone has ALWAYS chased bad pitches. That isn't new. That was literally the knock on him.

Here are some of Keith Law's scouting notes:

Law wrote:As a hitter, it’s close to a dead-pull approach, more power than hit, and while the strikeout rate is way down from last year, he doesn’t have very good command of the strike zone, swinging nearly 40 percent of the time pitchers go outside of the zone, often chasing pitches way out of the zone, and he doesn’t cut it down with two strikes.

Almost always. Final year in college 58 walks 26 strikeouts. I'm guessing teams were intentionally walking or pitching around. Aside from that he has always been upside down. Kind of surprising the Royals put him in the majors after such limited time in milb.

Not almost. It's always. There has not been a time that he was not chasing at a rate too high for sustained success in the big leagues. It was ALWAYS the red flag on him.

Here's the thing, though... he hasn't been THAT bad, it's just the results are bad early. His strikeout rate is lower than I would have expected. Chase rate is right around 40%. He's putting the ball on the ground a lot but making contact, and I'd expect the quality of contact to improve as he continues to adjust to the speed of the game.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 19:45 pm

Some 14 players on MLB Pipeline’s current Top 100 Prospects list have already received MLB callups this season, and six prospects hailing from the 2024 MLB Draft have been promoted to the big leagues, causing all sorts of emotions to churn inside the gut of Cardinals top prospect JJ Wetherholt.

However, after a few seconds of reasoning and reflecting, the shortstop/second baseman at Double-A Springfield who is mature beyond his years understands that all paths to the big leagues are different and that his time will come if he simply keeps on keeping on.

“It's a mix of both [emotions], for sure,” said Wetherholt, the No. 7 pick in 2024, referring to fellow draftees Chase Burns, Nick Kurtz, Jac Caglianone, Christian Moore, Cam Smith and Round 2C pick Ryan Johnson reaching the big leagues before him. “When you see that, you want some of that for yourself. But it's not how things are supposed to go now. And you don't benefit by thinking that way.

“So that's a time I can sit down, reflect and understand that I'm exactly where I should be. It fires me up to see [other promotions]. You can have those external thoughts of, ‘Oh shoot, they've been called up and I haven't,’ but that's not for me to worry about. Where my focus needs to be is trusting in the [organization] and going out and playing good ball. At the end of the day, if I just continue to play well, things will take care of themselves.”

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 08:21 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 08:02 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:49 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:25 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:07 am Walks to strikeouts are excellent but Caglianone is an example of what can go wrong. Leave him in the minors to get seasoning. Arenado is gone after next season.

Caglianone's walks to strikeouts immediately got upside down when he went from college to pro ball. Now he is chasing bad pitches.

Patience.

Caglianone has ALWAYS chased bad pitches. That isn't new. That was literally the knock on him.

Here are some of Keith Law's scouting notes:

Law wrote:As a hitter, it’s close to a dead-pull approach, more power than hit, and while the strikeout rate is way down from last year, he doesn’t have very good command of the strike zone, swinging nearly 40 percent of the time pitchers go outside of the zone, often chasing pitches way out of the zone, and he doesn’t cut it down with two strikes.

Almost always. Final year in college 58 walks 26 strikeouts. I'm guessing teams were intentionally walking or pitching around. Aside from that he has always been upside down. Kind of surprising the Royals put him in the majors after such limited time in milb.

Not almost. It's always. There has not been a time that he was not chasing at a rate too high for sustained success in the big leagues. It was ALWAYS the red flag on him.

Here's the thing, though... he hasn't been THAT bad, it's just the results are bad early. His strikeout rate is lower than I would have expected. Chase rate is right around 40%. He's putting the ball on the ground a lot but making contact, and I'd expect the quality of contact to improve as he continues to adjust to the speed of the game.

You are correct but I was referencing his walks to strikeouts numbers in his final year in college. It is proof of the difference between college and even low minors.

2024 college 316 plate appearances. 58 walks. 26 strikeouts.
2024 A+ 126 plate appearances 7 walks. 26 strikeouts.

I'm surprised they brought him up but maybe it will work out. That's a big adjustment in a short period of time.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 08:13 am LoL. No one catches on that the thread title is a goof on the WillyCon thread...

My bad...blue font. Should have used blue font

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 08:37 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 08:21 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 08:02 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:49 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:25 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 07:07 am Walks to strikeouts are excellent but Caglianone is an example of what can go wrong. Leave him in the minors to get seasoning. Arenado is gone after next season.

Caglianone's walks to strikeouts immediately got upside down when he went from college to pro ball. Now he is chasing bad pitches.

Patience.

Caglianone has ALWAYS chased bad pitches. That isn't new. That was literally the knock on him.

Here are some of Keith Law's scouting notes:

Law wrote:As a hitter, it’s close to a dead-pull approach, more power than hit, and while the strikeout rate is way down from last year, he doesn’t have very good command of the strike zone, swinging nearly 40 percent of the time pitchers go outside of the zone, often chasing pitches way out of the zone, and he doesn’t cut it down with two strikes.

Almost always. Final year in college 58 walks 26 strikeouts. I'm guessing teams were intentionally walking or pitching around. Aside from that he has always been upside down. Kind of surprising the Royals put him in the majors after such limited time in milb.

Not almost. It's always. There has not been a time that he was not chasing at a rate too high for sustained success in the big leagues. It was ALWAYS the red flag on him.

Here's the thing, though... he hasn't been THAT bad, it's just the results are bad early. His strikeout rate is lower than I would have expected. Chase rate is right around 40%. He's putting the ball on the ground a lot but making contact, and I'd expect the quality of contact to improve as he continues to adjust to the speed of the game.

You are correct but I was referencing his walks to strikeouts numbers in his final year in college. It is proof of the difference between college and even low minors.

2024 college 316 plate appearances. 58 walks. 26 strikeouts.
2024 A+ 126 plate appearances 7 walks. 26 strikeouts.

I'm surprised they brought him up but maybe it will work out. That's a big adjustment in a short period of time.

Re: the walks to strikeout numbers... that's why I always say you "can't scout the slash line". He had 31 intentional walks out of the 58 total after only being intentionally walked 3 times in 2023. That isn't a marked change in his approach.