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Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 26 Jun 2025 18:53 pm
by Chubbs0910
Bad14 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:35 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:30 pm
MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:26 pm
He is what he is. I don't think anybody says he is great.
To be fair, there have been plenty on here who have raved about his defensive abilities. I personally think he is average defensively. He does one thing better than Herrera, and that has throw the ball.
He blocks better and frames pitches better. He's not the long term solution but Herrera should never catch another game.
Which was always the point.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 26 Jun 2025 18:54 pm
by scoutyjones2
WLTFE wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:10 pm'BAZAR '
Love Bazar
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 26 Jun 2025 19:07 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
- Bazar.jpg (48.53 KiB) Viewed 317 times
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 26 Jun 2025 21:17 pm
by ScotchMIrish
MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:26 pm
He is what he is. I don't think anybody says he is great.
True. Better than the alternative.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 26 Jun 2025 21:41 pm
by bccardsfan
His your basic .220 hitting decent defensive catcher. Baseball history is full of them.... nothing to see here. He is a place holder. If IH could throw.. but alas he cannot. Pozo should get some more starts. He can hit and doesn't look terrible behind the plate. We are a year or two away from one of the youngsters taking the position (we hope).
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 26 Jun 2025 22:59 pm
by renostl
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:51 pm
Bad14 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:35 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:30 pm
MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:26 pm
He is what he is. I don't think anybody says he is great.
To be fair, there have been plenty on here who have raved about his defensive abilities. I personally think he is average defensively. He does one thing better than Herrera, and that has throw the ball.
He blocks better and frames pitches better. He's not the long term solution but Herrera should never catch another game.
His framing is exaggerated and I believe causes pitchers to lose strike calls more than steal strike calls that would have been balls.
Just because you see a guy framing a pitch, doesn’t make him a good framer.
I’d also debate whether he blocks balls in the dirt better. Not saying either one is great, but I haven’t seen where one is better than the other one thing I know for sure Herrera is a much better hitter than Pages.
Agree.
Catchers getting charged for a PB is similar to an OF earning an error in today's game.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 06:33 am
by ScotchMIrish
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:51 pm
Bad14 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:35 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:30 pm
MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:26 pm
He is what he is. I don't think anybody says he is great.
To be fair, there have been plenty on here who have raved about his defensive abilities. I personally think he is average defensively. He does one thing better than Herrera, and that has throw the ball.
He blocks better and frames pitches better. He's not the long term solution but Herrera should never catch another game.
His framing is exaggerated and I believe causes pitchers to lose strike calls more than steal strike calls that would have been balls.
Just because you see a guy framing a pitch, doesn’t make him a good framer.
I’d also debate whether he blocks balls in the dirt better. Not saying either one is great, but I haven’t seen where one is better than the other one thing I know for sure Herrera is a much better hitter than Pages.
Perhaps I'm giving MLB too much credit but it appears next season we will get the much needed electronic strike zone and framing pitches will be irrelevant.
A poor defensive catcher will cost the team more runs than he will produce with his bat.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 07:13 am
by Basil Shabazz
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Jun 2025 06:33 am
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:51 pm
Bad14 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:35 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:30 pm
MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:26 pm
He is what he is. I don't think anybody says he is great.
To be fair, there have been plenty on here who have raved about his defensive abilities. I personally think he is average defensively. He does one thing better than Herrera, and that has throw the ball.
He blocks better and frames pitches better. He's not the long term solution but Herrera should never catch another game.
His framing is exaggerated and I believe causes pitchers to lose strike calls more than steal strike calls that would have been balls.
Just because you see a guy framing a pitch, doesn’t make him a good framer.
I’d also debate whether he blocks balls in the dirt better. Not saying either one is great, but I haven’t seen where one is better than the other one thing I know for sure Herrera is a much better hitter than Pages.
Perhaps I'm giving MLB too much credit but it appears next season we will get the much needed electronic strike zone and framing pitches will be irrelevant.
A poor defensive catcher will cost the team more runs than he will produce with his bat.
Mine isn't an argument that Herrera should be a starting catcher. It is an argument that Pages is overrated by many on here for his defensive ability.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 07:22 am
by Bad14
Chubbs0910 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 18:53 pm
Bad14 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:35 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:30 pm
MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:26 pm
He is what he is. I don't think anybody says he is great.
To be fair, there have been plenty on here who have raved about his defensive abilities. I personally think he is average defensively. He does one thing better than Herrera, and that has throw the ball.
He blocks better and frames pitches better. He's not the long term solution but Herrera should never catch another game.
Which was always the point.
Exactly. I think people forget how horrible Herrera is until he gets back there. And I don't think anyone believes Pages is the catcher of the future.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 08:57 am
by Melville
This has been my position as well.
Right now, he is easily the best catcher (defensively) from the group which has populated the roster this year.
The pitching staff and the coaches have made it very clear that he is the one they trust.
It is his job.
And it will remain his job until one of the prospects takes it away from him.
Crooks and Bernal will be given the opportunity to begin that competition next year - though given Rodriguez is perhaps 2 years behind them, it is certainly possible one will be traded thereby leaving the other to compete.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 11:26 am
by Carp4Cy
Clubmaker2 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 16:39 pm
Kind of ironic a team with 4 catchers needs a catcher...
who are the great coaching disciples that have you scoot up and get your arm broke, catch on one knee even with runners on and increase passed balls , stolen bases, do all that moving if a runner goes to undo the supposed framing setup. Move the glove way too much on pitches that were strikes to begin with.
May I suggest....
We always knew it would be hard to replace Yadi. That's why we kept him so long, even though half the posters didn't appreciate what we had.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 12:36 pm
by ScotchMIrish
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑27 Jun 2025 07:13 am
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑27 Jun 2025 06:33 am
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:51 pm
Bad14 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:35 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:30 pm
MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:26 pm
He is what he is. I don't think anybody says he is great.
To be fair, there have been plenty on here who have raved about his defensive abilities. I personally think he is average defensively. He does one thing better than Herrera, and that has throw the ball.
He blocks better and frames pitches better. He's not the long term solution but Herrera should never catch another game.
His framing is exaggerated and I believe causes pitchers to lose strike calls more than steal strike calls that would have been balls.
Just because you see a guy framing a pitch, doesn’t make him a good framer.
I’d also debate whether he blocks balls in the dirt better. Not saying either one is great, but I haven’t seen where one is better than the other one thing I know for sure Herrera is a much better hitter than Pages.
Perhaps I'm giving MLB too much credit but it appears next season we will get the much needed electronic strike zone and framing pitches will be irrelevant.
A poor defensive catcher will cost the team more runs than he will produce with his bat.
Mine isn't an argument that Herrera should be a starting catcher. It is an argument that Pages is overrated by many on here for his defensive ability.
Valid point. Looking at defense among catchers across the league Tampa's catchers are amazing but neither of them can hit. 2 passed balls and 10 wild pitches at the midway point of the season.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 15:41 pm
by ClassicO
Melville wrote: ↑27 Jun 2025 08:57 am
This has been my position as well.
Right now, he is easily the best catcher (defensively) from the group which has populated the roster this year.
The pitching staff and the coaches have made it very clear that he is the one they trust.
It is his job.
And it will remain his job until one of the prospects takes it away from him.
Crooks and Bernal will be given the opportunity to begin that competition next year - though given Rodriguez is perhaps 2 years behind them, it is certainly possible one will be traded thereby leaving the other to compete.
As usual, you revise history and lie.
You compared Pages to 3-time gold-glover Pagnozzi. Ha ha ha.
With respect to those prospects, you said "One of the prospects may do so - but it won't be easy and won't be handed over." It will be handed over.
And BTW - Raniel Rodriguez is not regarded highly defensively and has fallen down since going to low-A ball- .200/.297/.338/.636 with one HR in almost the same PAs as in Rookie ball where he was on fire.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 15:45 pm
by Lloyd Braun
Web7 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 15:09 pm
Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Nope. I looked, it can't be done
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 18:25 pm
by Melville
ClassicO wrote: ↑27 Jun 2025 15:41 pm
Melville wrote: ↑27 Jun 2025 08:57 am
This has been my position as well.
Right now, he is easily the best catcher (defensively) from the group which has populated the roster this year.
The pitching staff and the coaches have made it very clear that he is the one they trust.
It is his job.
And it will remain his job until one of the prospects takes it away from him.
Crooks and Bernal will be given the opportunity to begin that competition next year - though given Rodriguez is perhaps 2 years behind them, it is certainly possible one will be traded thereby leaving the other to compete.
As usual, you revise history and lie.
You compared Pages to 3-time gold-glover Pagnozzi. Ha ha ha.
With respect to those prospects, you said "One of the prospects may do so - but it won't be easy and won't be handed over." It will be handed over.
And BTW - Raniel Rodriguez is not regarded highly defensively and has fallen down since going to low-A ball- .200/.297/.338/.636 with one HR in almost the same PAs as in Rookie ball where he was on fire.
As usual, you attack others and avoid facts.
I brilliantly compared Pages to Pagnozzi as a glove first catcher who secured the starting job on that basis - and not on the basis of his bat.
And no - the job will not be gifted to one of the prospects - and the Cardinals do have some promising ones.
One of them will be required to take it away.
Obviously, you are in full agreement with me.
Just as obviously, you can't admit that.
And that is just fine.
Re: Can we stop with how great Pages is behind the plate ?
Posted: 27 Jun 2025 21:25 pm
by Bad14
And he calls a better game! Ask Sonny!
