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ZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 20:06 pm It’s mind boggling watching mlb highlights, looking at leader board power numbers, and realizing that the Cardinals arent playing the same sport as everyone else.

Adam2 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 09:51 am

Cranny wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 08:54 am When I was on the back fields at Spring Training, there was a crowd behind the left field fence when Walker took BP. I had never seen that before for any player.

When Gorman was in high school, he won almost every national home run hitting contest for high school kids.

and so far hasn't come close to translating to this level. BP homers are cool

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 11:48 am it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 11:48 am it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Cranny wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 11:48 am it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:39 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 11:48 am it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

Cusecards wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 20:22 pm

ZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 20:06 pm It’s mind boggling watching mlb highlights, looking at leader board power numbers, and realizing that the Cardinals arent playing the same sport as everyone else.

Tell that to Burleson.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:48 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:39 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 11:48 am it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

I did particularly enjoy the 11 HRs in 301 PAs in college being an example of a power hitter.

Like 402 players in college baseball that year had 11+ HRs.

And Crooks total was actually 9 in 311 PAs, not 11. The 402 becomes 602 players with 9+ HRs.

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:54 pm

ZouMiz2424 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 20:06 pm It’s mind boggling watching mlb highlights, looking at leader board power numbers, and realizing that the Cardinals arent playing the same sport as everyone else.

Tell that to Burleson.

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:39 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 11:48 am it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 08:54 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 08:52 am League cracking down on roids was the shifting point. McGwire's Cardinals season record will stand for a long time.

You don’t say?

Cranny wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 13:18 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:39 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 12:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 11:48 am it's probably not a developmental problem. It's a philosophy problem...or not a problem...just a philosophy. We value contact over power and miss now in our drafts....look at 2022 through 2024 Drafts....Contact and EV and Walks over Power and Miss. Maybe one or two players will hit for power...but if they don't so be it.

Not so sure about that concept, Craviduce. Look at the past 7 years -

2018 - They took Gorman in the 1st round and Baker in the 2C round. Both power picks.
2019 - They took Fletcher as a power pick in the 2nd round
2020 - They took Walker in the 2nd round. Huge power potential
2021 - They took Baez in the 2nd round. Big power potential
2022 - They took Crooks, who had 11 HRs in 311 PAs for OU.
2023 - They took Davis in the 1st round, who had 21 HRs in 278 PAs for Arizona
2024 - They took Campos had 11 HRs in 284 PAs for ASU and Kloss had 19 HR in 272 PAs at U. of Cincinnati.

the question was when was the shift....I provided the timeline, the players taken fit the pattern. Your new Hitting Coach, Brown fits the pattern.... HIT over Power.

And Campos is a terrible example, Cranny. If the player hits for power, so be it, Campos can do neither, he wasn't drafted for his bat, he was drafted b/c he could get low to the plate...and that backfired on the Cards, b/c he SUCKS as a catcher with a Pro Squad.

They've cornered/targeted Hit and High EV players the last 3 drafts, Crooks included. Ignore anything before 2022, because they changed approaches.

and don't cherry pick one player....look at all the hitters...there's a theme.


Church, Honeyman, Petrutz, Harris, Paige, Richardson, Crooks, Scott, Jobert, Gazdar, Martin, McGee, Madron....hit and EV over Power and Miss.

When you refer to 2023 and I point out that our 1st round pick that year hit 21 home runs in 278 PAs as a college junior, that's not cherry picking. It's just a fact that they went for power that year in the first round.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 13:31 pm Did they decide it didn't matter, or did they decide they couldn't afford it?