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Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

What is at the Major League level should never dictate what you draft. Every MLB team should always draft the best available player regardless of position. Then you fill holes through trade and free agency. Drafting by need over best available results in reaches leaving better talent for other teams.

Also, people are way too quick to write off young talent. Then when they see another team maximize the talent, they slam the organization for not giving the player a chance to develop and work through growing pains.

Garcia was DFA’ed by Texas and every team passed on him. He developed extremely late and the Cardinals still got hammered on here for giving up on him to quick. Everyone want our prospects to take the Pujols route. Most have growing pains and need to learn at the Major League level how to work out of it. Some do, others don’t. Need to give them until at least 25 or 26 years old before writing them off. Way too early on Winn and Walker (especially considering this organization messed up Walker).

Liberatore and Gorman were getting close to the we need to see those adjustments window closing entering this year. Looks like Liberatore met the challenge where Gorman never will. People were ready to dump Liberatore the last few years as they lacked patience to work through it.

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

That’s what we do criticize and assess and praise. It’s a revolving door.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:40 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

That’s what we do criticize and assess and praise. It’s a revolving door.

As rank amateurs.

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:42 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:40 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

That’s what we do criticize and assess and praise. It’s a revolving door.

As rank amateurs.

That’s correct. The meekest of the meek.

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

This may be the first time I've ever totally agreed with Cranny.

Anyone saying Winn has disappointed in any way is simply a moron. Do y'all know how rare it is for any rookie to hit the ground running like he has, and put up 3+ WAR in his first two seasons? And how much rarer at age 22?

After this his 2nd season Winn will have put up around 1/3 of the WAR that Kolten Wong did in his entire career. He's already the best SS they've had in 20 years, and he's likely to get a lot better as he gets more experienced and mature (both physically and mentally). In 5 years he could very well be getting MVP votes.

Idiotic thread.

There's going to be a work stoppage after the 2026 season .

Teams like the Cardinals aren't going to sinking a ton of money into long term deals until the dust clears if then.

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

Lol...D isn't really elite? There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't jump at the chance to grab Winn. Your funny. But not in a funny way.

Winn is the future at SS.

But

I too have said there's no need whatsoever to rush into singing him to a LT (8-10 yrs) deal.

Wait until after 2026 when there's a new POBO in C. Bloom and he's a chance to fully evaluate Winn and what he wants to do contract wise.

I keep wondering why they have JJW playing so much SS, are they not sure about Winn or is this just smart player development having him at a much more difficult position vs 2B or 3B?

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:45 am Winn is the future at SS.

But

I too have said there's no need whatsoever to rush into singing him to a LT (8-10 yrs) deal.

Wait until after 2026 when there's a new POBO in C. Bloom and he's a chance to fully evaluate Winn and what he wants to do contract wise.

I keep wondering why they have JJW playing so much SS, are they not sure about Winn or is this just smart player development having him at a much more difficult position vs 2B or 3B?

I disagree on just one point- third base. I feel it’s as demeaning as SS as it takes a special breed to be really good at it.

I like you was a good SS, then 2d baseman, but sucked at third.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:54 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:45 am Winn is the future at SS.

But

I too have said there's no need whatsoever to rush into singing him to a LT (8-10 yrs) deal.

Wait until after 2026 when there's a new POBO in C. Bloom and he's a chance to fully evaluate Winn and what he wants to do contract wise.

I keep wondering why they have JJW playing so much SS, are they not sure about Winn or is this just smart player development having him at a much more difficult position vs 2B or 3B?

I disagree on just one point- third base. I feel it’s as demeaning as SS as it takes a special breed to be really good at it.

I like you was a good SS, then 2d baseman, but sucked at third.

Sorry BDog but not even close.

SS is THE most demanding position on the infield.

3rd requires a quick first step and great reflexes.

SS requires that plus range, a strong arm (unless you're the Wizard when he played w/a limited wing) to make throws from the hole, turning double plays, handling stolen base attempts and relays from the outfield.

I take nothing away from 3rd baseman but SS is the more demanding position.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:54 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:45 am Winn is the future at SS.

But

I too have said there's no need whatsoever to rush into singing him to a LT (8-10 yrs) deal.

Wait until after 2026 when there's a new POBO in C. Bloom and he's a chance to fully evaluate Winn and what he wants to do contract wise.

I keep wondering why they have JJW playing so much SS, are they not sure about Winn or is this just smart player development having him at a much more difficult position vs 2B or 3B?

I disagree on just one point- third base. I feel it’s as demeaning as SS as it takes a special breed to be really good at it.

I like you was a good SS, then 2d baseman, but sucked at third.

Sorry BDog but not even close.

SS is THE most demanding position on the infield.

3rd requires a quick first step and great reflexes.

SS requires that plus range, a strong arm (unless you're the Wizard when he played w/a limited wing) to make throws from the hole, turning double plays, handling stolen base attempts and relays from the outfield.

I take nothing away from 3rd baseman but SS is the more demanding position.

I’m talking in the micro of the position. Simple straight up baseball. Hated third. Yes SS does much more on the field.

LoL...I recently remember the outcry on CT when the Cards gave DeJong a reasonable early contract, and the caterwauling when he didn't turn out to be a star and his contract, yet it was 6 years for $26 million dollars


Also, why do you all hate Masyn Winn??

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:54 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:45 am Winn is the future at SS.

But

I too have said there's no need whatsoever to rush into singing him to a LT (8-10 yrs) deal.

Wait until after 2026 when there's a new POBO in C. Bloom and he's a chance to fully evaluate Winn and what he wants to do contract wise.

I keep wondering why they have JJW playing so much SS, are they not sure about Winn or is this just smart player development having him at a much more difficult position vs 2B or 3B?

I disagree on just one point- third base. I feel it’s as demeaning as SS as it takes a special breed to be really good at it.

I like you was a good SS, then 2d baseman, but sucked at third.

Sorry BDog but not even close.

SS is THE most demanding position on the infield.

3rd requires a quick first step and great reflexes.

SS requires that plus range, a strong arm (unless you're the Wizard when he played w/a limited wing) to make throws from the hole, turning double plays, handling stolen base attempts and relays from the outfield.

I take nothing away from 3rd baseman but SS is the more demanding position.

More demanding than catcher?

3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:50 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

This may be the first time I've ever totally agreed with Cranny.

Anyone saying Winn has disappointed in any way is simply a moron. Do y'all know how rare it is for any rookie to hit the ground running like he has, and put up 3+ WAR in his first two seasons? And how much rarer at age 22?

After this his 2nd season Winn will have put up around 1/3 of the WAR that Kolten Wong did in his entire career. He's already the best SS they've had in 20 years, and he's likely to get a lot better as he gets more experienced and mature (both physically and mentally). In 5 years he could very well be getting MVP votes.

He will never get MVP votes. The league is littered with very good young SS

did the OP forget the blue font?

some posters on here... yeesh