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Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 09:05 am
by rockondlouie
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:55 am
Super glad Burly is having a great stretch and no one "dislikes" him.
It's a certain poster who they have an issue with.
But we saw a similar production run in 2024 from Burly:
6/1-7/31
230 PA
13 HR
45 RBI
.281 .316 .505 .821
Only to see this from 8/1-seasons end
201 PA's
3 HR
15 RBI's
.243 .313 .326 .639
Was the big drop off just Burly regressing to his mean? Was it the wear and tear of the season? Was it a conditioning issue?
Who know?
It's a very small sample size (36 PA's) but the one thing we know is he's having success vs LHP (,324 .361 .529 .891), something he didn't have coming into 2025 (career including 2025: .228 .264 .330 .594 ).
If he's turned the corner vs LHP, then the Cardinals have something.
I've wonder if this happens, and J. Walker doesn't progress by seasons end, would they instead look to deal Walker and keep Burly as the FT right fielder (he's not as bad as many think but does possess a very weak arm).
Keep it up Bison/Bumbles (fans just having fun so don't get upset cranny
).
No. But he’d make a very good left fielder with Tucker in right.
Okay Tucker in RF, hellyea!
Will that ever happen? Hellno!
I want them to convert I. Hererra to a LF, something I started calling for them to do last season.
Walker's on the hit seat, especially if Burly keeps hitting and plays a league average RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) like he is so far in 2025.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 09:10 am
by scoutyjones2
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:05 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:55 am
Super glad Burly is having a great stretch and no one "dislikes" him.
It's a certain poster who they have an issue with.
But we saw a similar production run in 2024 from Burly:
6/1-7/31
230 PA
13 HR
45 RBI
.281 .316 .505 .821
Only to see this from 8/1-seasons end
201 PA's
3 HR
15 RBI's
.243 .313 .326 .639
Was the big drop off just Burly regressing to his mean? Was it the wear and tear of the season? Was it a conditioning issue?
Who know?
It's a very small sample size (36 PA's) but the one thing we know is he's having success vs LHP (,324 .361 .529 .891), something he didn't have coming into 2025 (career including 2025: .228 .264 .330 .594 ).
If he's turned the corner vs LHP, then the Cardinals have something.
I've wonder if this happens, and J. Walker doesn't progress by seasons end, would they instead look to deal Walker and keep Burly as the FT right fielder (he's not as bad as many think but does possess a very weak arm).
Keep it up Bison/Bumbles (fans just having fun so don't get upset cranny
).
No. But he’d make a very good left fielder with Tucker in right.
Okay Tucker in RF, hellyea!
Will that ever happen? Hellno!
I want them to convert I. Hererra to a LF, something I started calling for them to do last season.
Walker's on the hit seat, especially if Burly keeps hitting and plays a league average RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) like he is so far in 2025.
Herrera can't be a DH without a bone bruise or hammy occurring. Not sure he can judge a flyball and with how poorly he throws to 2b, if he'd be valuable in the OF, regardless of his possible fraility
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 09:10 am
by CorneliusWolfe
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:55 am
Super glad Burly is having a great stretch and no one "dislikes" him.
It's a certain poster who they have an issue with.
But we saw a similar production run in 2024 from Burly:
6/1-7/31
230 PA
13 HR
45 RBI
.281 .316 .505 .821
Only to see this from 8/1-seasons end
201 PA's
3 HR
15 RBI's
.243 .313 .326 .639
Was the big drop off just Burly regressing to his mean? Was it the wear and tear of the season? Was it a conditioning issue?
Who know?
It's a very small sample size (36 PA's) but the one thing we know is he's having success vs LHP (,324 .361 .529 .891), something he didn't have coming into 2025 (career including 2025: .228 .264 .330 .594 ).
If he's turned the corner vs LHP, then the Cardinals have something.
I've wonder if this happens, and J. Walker doesn't progress by seasons end, would they instead look to deal Walker and keep Burly as the FT right fielder (he's not as bad as many think but does possess a very weak arm).
Keep it up Bison/Bumbles (fans just having fun so don't get upset cranny
).
No. But he’d make a very good left fielder with Tucker in right.
If they go that route they should try stashing JW in AAA and hope he eventually dominates to build some semblance of trade value based on the hope that he was just called up a little too early. They’ll probably DFA him and watch him end up as a Brewers star.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 09:15 am
by CorneliusWolfe
3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:38 am
I'm still here and waiting until the end of the season to adjust my priors, if necessary.
I certainly have a long enough attention span to not seriously alter my analysis during the unprecedented hottest power surge of his career.
And yes, I still believe trading him is three clear smartest move right now. He's on pace for 2.5 WAR this year but there are teams that may get fooled into valuing him like a 3-4 WAR guy.
I thought we were all in hiding out of fear of being wrong instead of watching and waiting and not hyperventilating over a hot streak like we all saw end abruptly just last year.
Is this deja vu or did this conversation happen three yesterday? Maybe I’m getting old.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 09:29 am
by scoutyjones2
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:05 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:55 am
Super glad Burly is having a great stretch and no one "dislikes" him.
It's a certain poster who they have an issue with.
But we saw a similar production run in 2024 from Burly:
6/1-7/31
230 PA
13 HR
45 RBI
.281 .316 .505 .821
Only to see this from 8/1-seasons end
201 PA's
3 HR
15 RBI's
.243 .313 .326 .639
Was the big drop off just Burly regressing to his mean? Was it the wear and tear of the season? Was it a conditioning issue?
Who know?
It's a very small sample size (36 PA's) but the one thing we know is he's having success vs LHP (,324 .361 .529 .891), something he didn't have coming into 2025 (career including 2025: .228 .264 .330 .594 ).
If he's turned the corner vs LHP, then the Cardinals have something.
I've wonder if this happens, and J. Walker doesn't progress by seasons end, would they instead look to deal Walker and keep Burly as the FT right fielder (he's not as bad as many think but does possess a very weak arm).
Keep it up Bison/Bumbles (fans just having fun so don't get upset cranny
).
No. But he’d make a very good left fielder with Tucker in right.
Okay Tucker in RF, hellyea!
Will that ever happen? Hellno!
I want them to convert I. Hererra to a LF, something I started calling for them to do last season.
Walker's on the hit seat, especially if Burly keeps hitting and plays a league average RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) like he is so far in 2025.
Ivan is a TKO. Bone bruise and now Hammy.
He gets hurt ever 20 games or so from running?
"I tried to go for two bases and I felt a pull in my hamstring, a small spot," Herrera said. "I didn’t think it was bad. … I didn’t feel uncomfortable, but they did take me out of the game...I thought I could keep playing. I was hoping that I could play today. But (the team) said if I keep playing with it, I risk missing all year."
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 09:55 am
by nighthawk
Honky Tonk Man wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:15 am
I will tell you where, they are down the end of a lonely street at Heartbreak Hotel
I've got to tell you, I've lost track of all these thoughtful "what happened to the doubter/hater" threads. Guy hits really well in his last 100 or so PAs, negating his performance over his first 1100 PA. We all can remember the enduring greatness of Colby Rasmus, Matt Adams and the like because of this logic.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 09:58 am
by 3dender
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:15 am
3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:38 am
I'm still here and waiting until the end of the season to adjust my priors, if necessary.
I certainly have a long enough attention span to not seriously alter my analysis during the unprecedented hottest power surge of his career.
And yes, I still believe trading him is three clear smartest move right now. He's on pace for 2.5 WAR this year but there are teams that may get fooled into valuing him like a 3-4 WAR guy.
I thought we were all in hiding out of fear of being wrong instead of watching and waiting and not hyperventilating over a hot streak like we all saw end abruptly just last year.
Is this deja vu or did this conversation happen three yesterday? Maybe I’m getting old.
This conversation will repeat every day or two until a couple weeks after his heater ends.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 10:01 am
by moose-and-squirrel
nighthawk wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:55 am
Honky Tonk Man wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:15 am
I will tell you where, they are down the end of a lonely street at Heartbreak Hotel
I've got to tell you, I've lost track of all these thoughtful "what happened to the doubter/hater" threads. Guy hits really well in his last 100 or so PAs, negating his performance over his first 1100 PA. We all can remember the enduring greatness of Colby Rasmus, Matt Adams and the like because of this logic.
maaaaaan.. I had high hopes for Matt Adams
and to someone else's post, Burleson's arm isn't bad.. just the opposite actually.. it's pretty good.. not a cannon, but serviceable
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 10:40 am
by rockondlouie
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:29 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:05 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:55 am
Super glad Burly is having a great stretch and no one "dislikes" him.
It's a certain poster who they have an issue with.
But we saw a similar production run in 2024 from Burly:
6/1-7/31
230 PA
13 HR
45 RBI
.281 .316 .505 .821
Only to see this from 8/1-seasons end
201 PA's
3 HR
15 RBI's
.243 .313 .326 .639
Was the big drop off just Burly regressing to his mean? Was it the wear and tear of the season? Was it a conditioning issue?
Who know?
It's a very small sample size (36 PA's) but the one thing we know is he's having success vs LHP (,324 .361 .529 .891), something he didn't have coming into 2025 (career including 2025: .228 .264 .330 .594 ).
If he's turned the corner vs LHP, then the Cardinals have something.
I've wonder if this happens, and J. Walker doesn't progress by seasons end, would they instead look to deal Walker and keep Burly as the FT right fielder (he's not as bad as many think but does possess a very weak arm).
Keep it up Bison/Bumbles (fans just having fun so don't get upset cranny
).
No. But he’d make a very good left fielder with Tucker in right.
Okay Tucker in RF, hellyea!
Will that ever happen? Hellno!
I want them to convert I. Hererra to a LF, something I started calling for them to do last season.
Walker's on the hit seat, especially if Burly keeps hitting and plays a league average RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) like he is so far in 2025.
Ivan is a TKO. Bone bruise and now Hammy.
He gets hurt ever 20 games or so from running?
"I tried to go for two bases and I felt a pull in my hamstring, a small spot," Herrera said. "I didn’t think it was bad. … I didn’t feel uncomfortable, but they did take me out of the game...I thought I could keep playing. I was hoping that I could play today. But (the team) said if I keep playing with it, I risk missing all year."
Oh noooooooooooooo!
Don't put the TKO jinx on him scouty
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 10:43 am
by rockondlouie
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:10 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:05 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 09:02 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 08:55 am
Super glad Burly is having a great stretch and no one "dislikes" him.
It's a certain poster who they have an issue with.
But we saw a similar production run in 2024 from Burly:
6/1-7/31
230 PA
13 HR
45 RBI
.281 .316 .505 .821
Only to see this from 8/1-seasons end
201 PA's
3 HR
15 RBI's
.243 .313 .326 .639
Was the big drop off just Burly regressing to his mean? Was it the wear and tear of the season? Was it a conditioning issue?
Who know?
It's a very small sample size (36 PA's) but the one thing we know is he's having success vs LHP (,324 .361 .529 .891), something he didn't have coming into 2025 (career including 2025: .228 .264 .330 .594 ).
If he's turned the corner vs LHP, then the Cardinals have something.
I've wonder if this happens, and J. Walker doesn't progress by seasons end, would they instead look to deal Walker and keep Burly as the FT right fielder (he's not as bad as many think but does possess a very weak arm).
Keep it up Bison/Bumbles (fans just having fun so don't get upset cranny
).
No. But he’d make a very good left fielder with Tucker in right.
Okay Tucker in RF, hellyea!
Will that ever happen? Hellno!
I want them to convert I. Hererra to a LF, something I started calling for them to do last season.
Walker's on the hit seat, especially if Burly keeps hitting and plays a league average RF (0 DRS/0 OAA) like he is so far in 2025.
Herrera can't be a DH without a bone bruise or hammy occurring. Not sure he can judge a flyball and with how poorly he throws to 2b, if he'd be valuable in the OF, regardless of his possible fraility
When I looked at Bench's HR totals yesterday I was surprised to see he had played both LF and RF in 1970.
Other carchers have to, notably D. Murphy.
I'd have J. Jay work w/him this winter and then give him OF time in STing to see if he could judge those flyballs.
I told another poster yesterday "who knows, his arm may actually be decent from the OF"?
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 11:01 am
by Ace07
Hitters .310 or above in major league baseball, and corresponding fWAR:
Judge, 6.0 fWAR
Pena, 3.8
Ramirez, 3.3
Wilson, 3.2
Will Smith, 3.1
Kirk, 2.8
Garcia, 2.3
Donovan, 2.2
Freeman, 2.2
Aranda, 1.9
Burleson, 1.2
Really puts into perspective how mediocre he is outside of hitting for average. Can hit baseballs, doesn't draw many walks, moderate power, doesn't run well and below average defensively. He's ideally a guy you hope to bat 6th-ish in a deep lineup & hide at DH as much as possible. You keep him around when he's cost controlled but don't break the bank for the guy in free agency.
And to be clear, I like Burleson. He makes great contact and is a solid bat to have in the lineup. Just not a guy I'd ever build a team around.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 11:04 am
by 3dender
Ace07 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 11:01 am
Hitters .310 or above in major league baseball, and corresponding fWAR:
Judge, 6.0 fWAR
Pena, 3.8
Ramirez, 3.3
Wilson, 3.2
Will Smith, 3.1
Kirk, 2.8
Garcia, 2.3
Donovan, 2.2
Freeman, 2.2
Aranda, 1.9
Burleson, 1.2
Really puts into perspective how mediocre he is outside of hitting for average. Can hit baseballs, doesn't draw many walks, moderate power, doesn't run well and below average defensively. He's ideally a guy you hope to bat 6th-ish in a deep lineup & hide at DH as much as possible. You keep him around when he's cost controlled but don't break the bank for the guy in free agency.
Or you trade him to a team that doesn't have a logjam of decent hitters at 1B/DH.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 11:05 am
by moose-and-squirrel
3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 11:04 am
Ace07 wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 11:01 am
Hitters .310 or above in major league baseball, and corresponding fWAR:
Judge, 6.0 fWAR
Pena, 3.8
Ramirez, 3.3
Wilson, 3.2
Will Smith, 3.1
Kirk, 2.8
Garcia, 2.3
Donovan, 2.2
Freeman, 2.2
Aranda, 1.9
Burleson, 1.2
Really puts into perspective how mediocre he is outside of hitting for average. Can hit baseballs, doesn't draw many walks, moderate power, doesn't run well and below average defensively. He's ideally a guy you hope to bat 6th-ish in a deep lineup & hide at DH as much as possible. You keep him around when he's cost controlled but don't break the bank for the guy in free agency.
Or you trade him to a team that doesn't have a logjam of decent hitters at 1B/DH.
the Boston RedSox are on line 3 sir
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 11:13 am
by Lightning Rod
Barking Lion wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:52 am
Good hitter, mediocre glove. Like his spirit and effort. Whether I would keep him all depends on what is offered back in a trade or the price of a contract. If you can keep him for under $8M, he fits on the team. If you are offered a young player with high ceiling or a 1-2 round draft pick you trade him.
Burly is a nice complimentary piece for a set team, but not a franchise builder. In the OF, he blocks a potential big bat. Same at 1b. He just isn't what the Cards need to build around.
He is an excellent first baseman and a decent outfielder, unfortunately we have a catcher playing first base.
If he is a complimentary piece what do you call Gormon and Walker?
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 11:15 am
by Talkin' Baseball
Lightning Rod wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 11:13 am
Barking Lion wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:52 am
Good hitter, mediocre glove. Like his spirit and effort. Whether I would keep him all depends on what is offered back in a trade or the price of a contract. If you can keep him for under $8M, he fits on the team. If you are offered a young player with high ceiling or a 1-2 round draft pick you trade him.
Burly is a nice complimentary piece for a set team, but not a franchise builder. In the OF, he blocks a potential big bat. Same at 1b. He just isn't what the Cards need to build around.
He is an excellent first baseman and a decent outfielder, unfortunately we have a catcher playing first base.
If he is a complimentary piece what do you call Gormon and Walker?
Projects.
Re: Where are all of the Burleson doubter's now ?
Posted: 22 Jun 2025 11:17 am
by moose-and-squirrel
Lightning Rod wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 11:13 am
Barking Lion wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:52 am
Good hitter, mediocre glove. Like his spirit and effort. Whether I would keep him all depends on what is offered back in a trade or the price of a contract. If you can keep him for under $8M, he fits on the team. If you are offered a young player with high ceiling or a 1-2 round draft pick you trade him.
Burly is a nice complimentary piece for a set team, but not a franchise builder. In the OF, he blocks a potential big bat. Same at 1b. He just isn't what the Cards need to build around.
He is an excellent first baseman and a decent outfielder, unfortunately we have a catcher playing first base.
If he is a complimentary piece what do you call Gormon and Walker?
you're right, he is a very good 1st baseman and not turrible in the OF
as far as Gorman and Walker go... Gorman depends on if they can move Nado or not. if they do, I could see him getting a long look at 3b. Walker... he needs to get his game goin