Iván Herrera

[Melville]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

Don’t recall him being given a chance to play first base or left field. I’m thinking they were hoping he would stick at catcher first but at just turning 25 there is still time to try other positions.

He has played a little 1B in winter ball.
I said 3 years ago he should be moved to LF - but it is becoming likely that ship has sailed.
The problem with 1b is that Contreras and Burleson are already proven - and therefore ahead of him.
And having a full time DH is a thing of the past for most MLB teams.
Odds are overwhelming that the team should trade him if his value is high this off-season.
Pretty much the only pathway to keeping him is as a LF - which is something they should have investigated long ago.
If they do keep him, he should spend the entire off-season trying to make that switch.

You don't trade the only true slugger on your team. I don't care if he has a position at all. Having a bat is a position this team desperately needs

Nearly the same argument was made concerning DeJong, Martinez, The Paper Tyler, and Mootbaar.
That argument was wrong every time.
And I was correct every time.
And I am correct on this as well.
Now, you may want to slow down in leaping to the conclusion Herrera is "the one true slugger".
He has just 36 XBH's in 496 career PA's - which is far from "slugger" category.
He has 16 this season - but 5 came in just 2 games.
He has 11 in the other 42 games.
Again, good to see his bat advance this year in the small sample of a mere 150 AB's - but it would be extremely foolish for the organization, or fans, to read too much into it.

[kyace]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

This might be where your competitive advantage has an angel that
we can see common ground.

He needs to be in the C/DH or 1B profile, IMO.
He does not need to be next in line for the Cardinals with
"put IV out there and let's see what he can do"
1 solid .800+ out there changes the dynamic of the team to division contender.

Problem is, he is behind both Contreras and Burleson, each of whom has been a better player than Herrera overall so far.
Bad gamble to replace them with an inferior option.
Bottom line.
The team has an awful roster construction right now.
There just isn't a good fit for him.
Not his fault.
Simply the reality.
He is one of several Cardinals facing that dilemma currently.
Trades are the only cure for that.

Red Sox or Seattle would be good fits. Both looking for rh power bat that can play first base and DH some. I just can’t see that happening but with Bloom who knows. His injury and the lack of rh power on this team now pretty much negates a trade at this point

[Melville]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

No. This is the first chance he’s been given to actually play every day in the majors

Incorrect.
He was gifted the starting catcher job each of the past 2 seasons - and lost it to his backup within 30 games each time.
Huge red flag.

Incorrect. he has not been given the chance to play every day if you are given the chance to play every day you actually play every day

Respectfully, you are denying the meaning of your own words.
You claimed he has never been given the CHANCE to play every day.
Factually, he has been given that very chance each of the past 2 seasons - he was the strafing catcher each of the past 2 seasons.
And lost that gifted assignment both times in about a month.
Neither the pitchers nor the coaching staff want him behind the plate on a regular basis (with good reason, obviously) - despite being given the CHANCE in 2024 and again in 2025.
Like it or not, he needs to follow the Schwarber and Varsho route.
Goodman out in Colorado will as well.
That is simply a baseball reality.
And you have my personal guarantee that no one knows that better than Herrera himself.
He has no position - and will quickly run out of time to find one.
Few teams have long term use for a 25 year old full time DH.

No if you are given the chance to play every day you play every day it’s not hard he never played every day he was given limited playing time. This is the first season he’s been given to actually play everyday and he’s the best hitter on the team it would be dumb to trade the best hitter on the team

One, I am not in the habit of anointing anyone as "the best hitter on the team" based on 42 games and 150 AB's.
Two, in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Three, the Astros did that very thing just last year in trading Tucker - and Herrera is no Tucker.
Four, they made the exactly right decision in doing so.
Five, over the past decade my track record of analyzing which young players STL should trade and when is perfect - and I am right about this as well.

[scoutyjones2]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

No. This is the first chance he’s been given to actually play every day in the majors

Incorrect.
He was gifted the starting catcher job each of the past 2 seasons - and lost it to his backup within 30 games each time.
Huge red flag.

Incorrect. he has not been given the chance to play every day if you are given the chance to play every day you actually play every day

Respectfully, you are denying the meaning of your own words.
You claimed he has never been given the CHANCE to play every day.
Factually, he has been given that very chance each of the past 2 seasons - he was the strafing catcher each of the past 2 seasons.
And lost that gifted assignment both times in about a month.
Neither the pitchers nor the coaching staff want him behind the plate on a regular basis (with good reason, obviously) - despite being given the CHANCE in 2024 and again in 2025.
Like it or not, he needs to follow the Schwarber and Varsho route.
Goodman out in Colorado will as well.
That is simply a baseball reality.
And you have my personal guarantee that no one knows that better than Herrera himself.
He has no position - and will quickly run out of time to find one.
Few teams have long term use for a 25 year old full time DH.

No if you are given the chance to play every day you play every day it’s not hard he never played every day he was given limited playing time. This is the first season he’s been given to actually play everyday and he’s the best hitter on the team it would be dumb to trade the best hitter on the team

One, I am not in the habit of anointing anyone as "the best hitter on the team" based on 42 games and 150 AB's.
Two, in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Three, the Astros did that very thing just last year in trading Tucker - and Herrera is no Tucker.
Four, they made the exactly right decision in doing so.
Five, over the past decade my track record of analyzing which young players STL should trade and when is perfect - and I am right about this as well.

Context smellville. Tuckers getting paid as a FA after this year dumb[ash]. They weren't gonna shell out the cake to keep him ...so stupid

Now I agree about small sample size. I also don't think he can easily project to continue his hitting or migration to another position.

[Clubmaker2]

a team with 4 catchers, 3 third basemen, and one tool burleson on the roster...........

[Melville]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

No. This is the first chance he’s been given to actually play every day in the majors

Incorrect.
He was gifted the starting catcher job each of the past 2 seasons - and lost it to his backup within 30 games each time.
Huge red flag.

Incorrect. he has not been given the chance to play every day if you are given the chance to play every day you actually play every day

Respectfully, you are denying the meaning of your own words.
You claimed he has never been given the CHANCE to play every day.
Factually, he has been given that very chance each of the past 2 seasons - he was the strafing catcher each of the past 2 seasons.
And lost that gifted assignment both times in about a month.
Neither the pitchers nor the coaching staff want him behind the plate on a regular basis (with good reason, obviously) - despite being given the CHANCE in 2024 and again in 2025.
Like it or not, he needs to follow the Schwarber and Varsho route.
Goodman out in Colorado will as well.
That is simply a baseball reality.
And you have my personal guarantee that no one knows that better than Herrera himself.
He has no position - and will quickly run out of time to find one.
Few teams have long term use for a 25 year old full time DH.

No if you are given the chance to play every day you play every day it’s not hard he never played every day he was given limited playing time. This is the first season he’s been given to actually play everyday and he’s the best hitter on the team it would be dumb to trade the best hitter on the team

One, I am not in the habit of anointing anyone as "the best hitter on the team" based on 42 games and 150 AB's.
Two, in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Three, the Astros did that very thing just last year in trading Tucker - and Herrera is no Tucker.
Four, they made the exactly right decision in doing so.
Five, over the past decade my track record of analyzing which young players STL should trade and when is perfect - and I am right about this as well.

Context smellville. Tuckers getting paid as a FA after this year dumb[ash]. They weren't gonna shell out the cake to keep him ...so stupid

Now I agree about small sample size. I also don't think he can easily project to continue his hitting or migration to another position.

Actually, scouty, you provided an excellent proof of my perfect analysis.
Well done.
Allow me to kindly repeat: "in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION".
Which is precisely what the Astros did and it was the right thing to do despite some here saying that trading a team's best hitter is "dumb".
Fact is, sometimes it is smart to do so.
And you are right - CONTEXT is what should drive such decisions.
Currently, the CONTEXT in which STL is operating is that Herrera has had a good run across 150 AB's (which is far from determining that he is the org's best hitter), after 9 years as a professional he still has not shown himself adequate at any position, his value may be inflated this fall, and the team has far more pressing needs than a full time DH.
Frankly, this is not even a close call at the moment.

[scoutyjones2]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

No. This is the first chance he’s been given to actually play every day in the majors

Incorrect.
He was gifted the starting catcher job each of the past 2 seasons - and lost it to his backup within 30 games each time.
Huge red flag.

Incorrect. he has not been given the chance to play every day if you are given the chance to play every day you actually play every day

Respectfully, you are denying the meaning of your own words.
You claimed he has never been given the CHANCE to play every day.
Factually, he has been given that very chance each of the past 2 seasons - he was the strafing catcher each of the past 2 seasons.
And lost that gifted assignment both times in about a month.
Neither the pitchers nor the coaching staff want him behind the plate on a regular basis (with good reason, obviously) - despite being given the CHANCE in 2024 and again in 2025.
Like it or not, he needs to follow the Schwarber and Varsho route.
Goodman out in Colorado will as well.
That is simply a baseball reality.
And you have my personal guarantee that no one knows that better than Herrera himself.
He has no position - and will quickly run out of time to find one.
Few teams have long term use for a 25 year old full time DH.

No if you are given the chance to play every day you play every day it’s not hard he never played every day he was given limited playing time. This is the first season he’s been given to actually play everyday and he’s the best hitter on the team it would be dumb to trade the best hitter on the team

One, I am not in the habit of anointing anyone as "the best hitter on the team" based on 42 games and 150 AB's.
Two, in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Three, the Astros did that very thing just last year in trading Tucker - and Herrera is no Tucker.
Four, they made the exactly right decision in doing so.
Five, over the past decade my track record of analyzing which young players STL should trade and when is perfect - and I am right about this as well.

Context smellville. Tuckers getting paid as a FA after this year dumb[ash]. They weren't gonna shell out the cake to keep him ...so stupid

Now I agree about small sample size. I also don't think he can easily project to continue his hitting or migration to another position.

Actually, scouty, you provided an excellent proof of my perfect analysis.
Well done.
Allow me to kindly repeat: "in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION".
Which is precisely what the Astros did and it was the right thing to do despite some here saying that trading a team's best hitter is "dumb".
Fact is, sometimes it is smart to do so.
And you are right - CONTEXT is what should drive such decisions.
Currently, the CONTEXT in which STL is operating is that Herrera has had a good run across 150 AB's (which is far from determining that he is the org's best hitter), after 9 years as a professional he still has not shown himself adequate at any position, his value may be inflated this fall, and the team has far more pressing needs than a full time DH.
Frankly, this is not even a close call at the moment.

Ignore the context of why they traded their best hitter vs Ivans circumstances. Not anywhere similar

Clueless Smellville

[Ozziesfan41]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

No. This is the first chance he’s been given to actually play every day in the majors

Incorrect.
He was gifted the starting catcher job each of the past 2 seasons - and lost it to his backup within 30 games each time.
Huge red flag.

Incorrect. he has not been given the chance to play every day if you are given the chance to play every day you actually play every day

Respectfully, you are denying the meaning of your own words.
You claimed he has never been given the CHANCE to play every day.
Factually, he has been given that very chance each of the past 2 seasons - he was the strafing catcher each of the past 2 seasons.
And lost that gifted assignment both times in about a month.
Neither the pitchers nor the coaching staff want him behind the plate on a regular basis (with good reason, obviously) - despite being given the CHANCE in 2024 and again in 2025.
Like it or not, he needs to follow the Schwarber and Varsho route.
Goodman out in Colorado will as well.
That is simply a baseball reality.
And you have my personal guarantee that no one knows that better than Herrera himself.
He has no position - and will quickly run out of time to find one.
Few teams have long term use for a 25 year old full time DH.

No if you are given the chance to play every day you play every day it’s not hard he never played every day he was given limited playing time. This is the first season he’s been given to actually play everyday and he’s the best hitter on the team it would be dumb to trade the best hitter on the team

One, I am not in the habit of anointing anyone as "the best hitter on the team" based on 42 games and 150 AB's.
Two, in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Three, the Astros did that very thing just last year in trading Tucker - and Herrera is no Tucker.
Four, they made the exactly right decision in doing so.
Five, over the past decade my track record of analyzing which young players STL should trade and when is perfect - and I am right about this as well.

One things for sure he’s a much much better hitter than the unikkkkorn

[scoutyjones2]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

No. This is the first chance he’s been given to actually play every day in the majors

Incorrect.
He was gifted the starting catcher job each of the past 2 seasons - and lost it to his backup within 30 games each time.
Huge red flag.

Incorrect. he has not been given the chance to play every day if you are given the chance to play every day you actually play every day

Respectfully, you are denying the meaning of your own words.
You claimed he has never been given the CHANCE to play every day.
Factually, he has been given that very chance each of the past 2 seasons - he was the strafing catcher each of the past 2 seasons.
And lost that gifted assignment both times in about a month.
Neither the pitchers nor the coaching staff want him behind the plate on a regular basis (with good reason, obviously) - despite being given the CHANCE in 2024 and again in 2025.
Like it or not, he needs to follow the Schwarber and Varsho route.
Goodman out in Colorado will as well.
That is simply a baseball reality.
And you have my personal guarantee that no one knows that better than Herrera himself.
He has no position - and will quickly run out of time to find one.
Few teams have long term use for a 25 year old full time DH.

No if you are given the chance to play every day you play every day it’s not hard he never played every day he was given limited playing time. This is the first season he’s been given to actually play everyday and he’s the best hitter on the team it would be dumb to trade the best hitter on the team

One, I am not in the habit of anointing anyone as "the best hitter on the team" based on 42 games and 150 AB's.
Two, in fact sometimes trading the best hitter on a team is the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Three, the Astros did that very thing just last year in trading Tucker - and Herrera is no Tucker.
Four, they made the exactly right decision in doing so.
Five, over the past decade my track record of analyzing which young players STL should trade and when is perfect - and I am right about this as well.

One things for sure he’s a much much better hitter than the unikkkkorn

Never been anything like him.

[renostl]

Two stints on IL in first half of the season.

Any concerns?

Yes.
There are 9 positions on a baseball field.
Now in his 9th season as a professional baseball player, he has yet to provide any indication of being able to play even one of them.

This might be where your competitive advantage has an angel that
we can see common ground.

He needs to be in the C/DH or 1B profile, IMO.
He does not need to be next in line for the Cardinals with
"put IV out there and let's see what he can do"
1 solid .800+ out there changes the dynamic of the team to division contender.

Problem is, he is behind both Contreras and Burleson, each of whom has been a better player than Herrera overall so far.
Bad gamble to replace them with an inferior option.
Bottom line.
The team has an awful roster construction right now.
There just isn't a good fit for him.
Not his fault.
Simply the reality.
He is one of several Cardinals facing that dilemma currently.
Trades are the only cure for that.

I'll go out on a limb here and declare Burleson a better OFer than IV.
Donovan too, maybe even Walker is since he can hit 2B, 3B and the plate
from deep RF.

The point was that if he cannot crack the lineup in one of those positions
then he loses value to the team.
The poor roster construction allows the freedom of trades without
having to trade any particular player or position. Most are minimum
wage players. The future of both corner infielders is 2 years max, weeks on the
short side. Moving either of them or their current backup changes Herrera's fit.

Nothing has to be done, although it would allow for roster clarity and perhaps acquire a needed player.
This flexibility can be an asset and doesn't need to be seen as bad.
With the C depth the 100+ game catcher isn't on the roster yet. The 60 game
catcher is and can be any of them.

[Honky Tonk Man]

put a guy with bad legs in the OF where he's never played before

what could go wrong

A very good question