STLtoday.com

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm**

suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?

Not the first time Winn has failed to run out a ball. Becoming a pattern. Odd that Lil oli didn't bench him and call him out in the media two days in a row. Guess his mantra of always hustling only applies to certain players. He is a worm.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.

His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm**

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.

Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:18 pm**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.
Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.

Or do players police this? Maybe he has addressed it and Winn ignored it or forgot?

I'd have benched him after he did it...don't recall another time, but I'm not watching all the time

Again, when do players own their poor play and miscues?

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:43 pm**

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:18 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.
Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.
Or do players police this? Maybe he has addressed it and Winn ignored it or forgot?

I'd have benched him after he did it...don't recall another time, but I'm not watching all the time

Again, when do players own their poor play and miscues?

Professional players should be able to police themselves. But many don't. And therefore it's a manager's responsibility. Always has been part of a manager's job description. Until Mo decided his unqualified pick didn't have to worry about it (or winning). Its why Mo signed a bunch of old geezers last year. His manager couldn't lead a clubhouse. What an embarrassment.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:45 pm**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:43 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:18 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.
Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.
Or do players police this? Maybe he has addressed it and Winn ignored it or forgot?

I'd have benched him after he did it...don't recall another time, but I'm not watching all the time

Again, when do players own their poor play and miscues?
Professional players should be able to police themselves. But many don't. And therefore it's a manager's responsibility. Always has been part of a manager's job description. Until Mo decided his unqualified pick didn't have to worry about it (or winning). Its why Mo signed a bunch of old geezers last year. His manager couldn't lead a clubhouse. What an embarrassment.

Announcers stated they asked and management is OK with knowing when to go all out as an everyday player with known back concerns, and when to save some bullets.

Seems they've addressed it. Gets the Yadi treatment

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:47 pm**

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:45 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:43 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:18 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.
Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.
Or do players police this? Maybe he has addressed it and Winn ignored it or forgot?

I'd have benched him after he did it...don't recall another time, but I'm not watching all the time

Again, when do players own their poor play and miscues?
Professional players should be able to police themselves. But many don't. And therefore it's a manager's responsibility. Always has been part of a manager's job description. Until Mo decided his unqualified pick didn't have to worry about it (or winning). Its why Mo signed a bunch of old geezers last year. His manager couldn't lead a clubhouse. What an embarrassment.
Announcers stated they asked and management is OK with knowing when to go all out as an everyday player with known back concerns, and when to save some bullets.

Seems they've addressed it. Gets the Yadi treatment

Wow. That's ridiculous. And a total 180 from the pud's stance on O'Neill. He's a worm.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 13:54 pm**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:47 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:45 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:43 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:18 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.
Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.
Or do players police this? Maybe he has addressed it and Winn ignored it or forgot?

I'd have benched him after he did it...don't recall another time, but I'm not watching all the time

Again, when do players own their poor play and miscues?
Professional players should be able to police themselves. But many don't. And therefore it's a manager's responsibility. Always has been part of a manager's job description. Until Mo decided his unqualified pick didn't have to worry about it (or winning). Its why Mo signed a bunch of old geezers last year. His manager couldn't lead a clubhouse. What an embarrassment.
Announcers stated they asked and management is OK with knowing when to go all out as an everyday player with known back concerns, and when to save some bullets.

Seems they've addressed it. Gets the Yadi treatment
Wow. That's ridiculous. And a total 180 from the pud's stance on O'Neill. He's a worm.

was TKO an everyday player

a core of the lineup that needed to be relied upon?

Again, Yadi treatment

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:24 pm**

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:54 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:47 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:45 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:43 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:18 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.
Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.
Or do players police this? Maybe he has addressed it and Winn ignored it or forgot?

I'd have benched him after he did it...don't recall another time, but I'm not watching all the time

Again, when do players own their poor play and miscues?
Professional players should be able to police themselves. But many don't. And therefore it's a manager's responsibility. Always has been part of a manager's job description. Until Mo decided his unqualified pick didn't have to worry about it (or winning). Its why Mo signed a bunch of old geezers last year. His manager couldn't lead a clubhouse. What an embarrassment.
Announcers stated they asked and management is OK with knowing when to go all out as an everyday player with known back concerns, and when to save some bullets.

Seems they've addressed it. Gets the Yadi treatment
Wow. That's ridiculous. And a total 180 from the pud's stance on O'Neill. He's a worm.
was TKO an everyday player a core of the lineup that needed to be relied upon?

Again, Yadi treatment

He was a Gold Glove LF who had finished top 10 in MVP voting. Yes, he was a major cog. To make matters worse, on the play Lil oli had such an issue with, O'Neill was running faster than 75% of MLB players while on a wet surface.

The pud is a worm.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:25 pm**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 14:24 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:54 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:47 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:45 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:43 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:18 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:11 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:06 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 13:01 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 10:55 am
suzybuck wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 06:24 am Masyn Winn decides not to run out a ground ball and it costs the team a run; Victor Scott decides to bunt with two strikes (twice) and both times fouls out; Jordan Walker doesn't have a clue what is required of him to be a team player. Is Marmol to blame for gross mismanagement or these young guys just not prepared right?
How is a manager responsible ?
Because he is supposed to be the head coach? Patterns are formed when things aren't addressed. Its the manager's job to address. Not that hard to figure out.
His title is manager
..there are actual subordinates to specifically address things like hitting and fielding...and they, incredibly, are called coaches!

We seem to blame managers, like most things in society..no personal responsibility and owning our [fork] ups. It's someone else's fault that I had a mental lapse on the field, or the manager didn't remind me to take a strike after the struggling opposing pitcher just walked a batter on 4 or 5 pitches...it's not a batters fault they dogged it to 2b and missed a chance to run out a bobble...it's the managers.
Its the manager's responsibility to make sure a lack of hustle doesn't become a pattern. Its not the first time Winn has failed to run hard. Obviously the "manager" hasn't properly addressed the issue. That's part of the job. The head coach is responsible for everyone in the dugout. He's supposed to be the boss. Again, not hard to understand.
Or do players police this? Maybe he has addressed it and Winn ignored it or forgot?

I'd have benched him after he did it...don't recall another time, but I'm not watching all the time

Again, when do players own their poor play and miscues?
Professional players should be able to police themselves. But many don't. And therefore it's a manager's responsibility. Always has been part of a manager's job description. Until Mo decided his unqualified pick didn't have to worry about it (or winning). Its why Mo signed a bunch of old geezers last year. His manager couldn't lead a clubhouse. What an embarrassment.
Announcers stated they asked and management is OK with knowing when to go all out as an everyday player with known back concerns, and when to save some bullets.

Seems they've addressed it. Gets the Yadi treatment
Wow. That's ridiculous. And a total 180 from the pud's stance on O'Neill. He's a worm.
was TKO an everyday player a core of the lineup that needed to be relied upon?

Again, Yadi treatment
He was a Gold Glove LF who had finished top 10 in MVP voting. Yes, he was a major cog. To make matters worse, on the play Lil oli had such an issue with, O'Neill was running faster than 75% of MLB players while on a wet surface.

The pud is a worm.

TKO was never a reliable starter. You're full of it. Winn gets the Yadi treatment.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:29 pm**

Winn hasn't accomplished enough to get the yadi treatment.

Gold Glove - No
Top 10 MVP - No
30 hrs - Not close

But O'Neill had those credentials. So who is full of it?

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:30 pm**

https://x.com/TalkinBaseball_/status/18 ... j38e6yw739

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:48 pm**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 14:29 pm Winn hasn't accomplished enough to get the yadi treatment.

Gold Glove - No
Top 10 MVP - No
30 hrs - Not close

But O'Neill had those credentials. So who is full of it?

Who said the manager didn't talk to Winn? Glad he was safe against the Dodgers.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:51 pm**

Absolut wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 14:30 pm https://x.com/TalkinBaseball_/status/18 ... j38e6yw739

Great. A play from when he was in Boston. Was he benched? Was he disciplined? Do you know anything about the situation outside of the video you found?

It has nothing to do with the conversation Scouty and I are having. It doesn't involve the Cardinals, marmol, or Winn. And it has nothing to do with O'Neill's time in StL.

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:53 pm**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 14:29 pm Winn hasn't accomplished enough to get the yadi treatment.

Gold Glove - No
Top 10 MVP - No
30 hrs - Not close

But O'Neill had those credentials. So who is full of it?

Winn has over 251 games at age 23...TKO had 170 after age 25. Didn't make the majors till age 23

wasn't even a starter till age 26

One season of 138 games

Posted: **21 Jun 2025 14:54 pm**

thetank2 wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 14:48 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Jun 2025 14:29 pm Winn hasn't accomplished enough to get the yadi treatment.

Gold Glove - No
Top 10 MVP - No
30 hrs - Not close

But O'Neill had those credentials. So who is full of it?
Who said the manager didn't talk to Winn? Glad he was safe against the Dodgers.

If Lil oli talked to him, it didn't sink in. Not the first time he has failed to run.

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