Looks Like the Best Closer I Ever Saw Is Finally Through

[Absolut]

2002-03 Eric Gagne was ridiculous.

wasnt he a PEDs guy?

Yes. Admitted hgh use.

[Strummer Jones]

Excuse to show…

The thing about that home run was just how shocking it was. Lidge was one of the nastiest relief pitchers I ever saw during that period.

And I don't care what anybody says--that home run jacked with him for a couple seasons.

[Adam2]

2002-03 Eric Gagne was ridiculous.

wasnt he a PEDs guy?

eating them like skittles

[Absolut]

Excuse to show…

The thing about that home run was just how shocking it was. Lidge was one of the nastiest relief pitchers I ever saw during that period.

And I don't care what anybody says--that home run jacked with him for a couple seasons.

Yes. Lidge was toying with stl before that pitch too

[jcgmoi]

Billy Wagner's last season was with the Braves. He was nails then too. Then he retired to farm.

His SABR bio says "Though he was born a natural righty Wagner taught himself to throw left-handed after breaking his right arm and shoulder before he was five years old." No details but he had a really rough early life.

[An Old Friend]

I see Craig Kimbrel signed back with the Braves, where he had five absolutely lights-out seasons as their closer before moving on to seven other teams, where he was increasingly less effective, no longer being trusted as a closer several years ago.

He pitched one inning of scoreless ball for Atlanta Friday...then was released. I haven't seen any backstory, but I wonder if this was arranged to allow him to retire as a Brave. Then again...the Braves addressed their disappointing season last week by firing their third base coach.

Look at Kimbrel's five seasons (plus Friday's one inning) as a Brave, and tell me any closer, at any time, was better: A 1.43 ERA and 477 Ks in 290 IP, so 60.8% of his outs with the Braves were strikeouts. I've never seen anyone better.

Now....is he a Hall of Famer?

2012-2016 Aroldis Chapman

12.4 bWAR
1.84 ERA
0.94 WHIP
15.7 K/9
546 K’s in 313.2 IP


Mariano Rivera had a 1.86 ERA/0.93 WHIP over a 9 year period from 2003-2011.

Emmanuel Clase had a 1.67 ERA/0.89 WHIP over his first 5 seasons from 2019-2024

J. Hader had a 0.85 WHiP, a 15.4 K/9 and 482 K's in his first 5 seasons from 2017 - 2021

Hader was a beast

Was?

1.29 ERA, 0.75 WHIP, .141 BAA this season.

[An Old Friend]

Billy Wagner's last season was with the Braves. He was nails then too. Then he retired to farm.

His SABR bio says "Though he was born a natural righty Wagner taught himself to throw left-handed after breaking his right arm and shoulder before he was five years old." No details but he had a really rough early life.

The details are all in this story:
https://www.mlb.com/news/billy-wagner-u ... ght-handed

Broke it playing football and just started throwing left handed.

[45s]

I see Craig Kimbrel signed back with the Braves, where he had five absolutely lights-out seasons as their closer before moving on to seven other teams, where he was increasingly less effective, no longer being trusted as a closer several years ago.

He pitched one inning of scoreless ball for Atlanta Friday...then was released. I haven't seen any backstory, but I wonder if this was arranged to allow him to retire as a Brave. Then again...the Braves addressed their disappointing season last week by firing their third base coach.

Look at Kimbrel's five seasons (plus Friday's one inning) as a Brave, and tell me any closer, at any time, was better: A 1.43 ERA and 477 Ks in 290 IP, so 60.8% of his outs with the Braves were strikeouts. I've never seen anyone better.

Now....is he a Hall of Famer?

2012-2016 Aroldis Chapman

12.4 bWAR
1.84 ERA
0.94 WHIP
15.7 K/9
546 K’s in 313.2 IP


Mariano Rivera had a 1.86 ERA/0.93 WHIP over a 9 year period from 2003-2011.

Emmanuel Clase had a 1.67 ERA/0.89 WHIP over his first 5 seasons from 2019-2024

J. Hader had a 0.85 WHiP, a 15.4 K/9 and 482 K's in his first 5 seasons from 2017 - 2021

Hader was a beast

Was?

1.29 ERA, 0.75 WHIP, .141 BAA this season.

17 for 17 in saves….

[Carp4Cy]

I'd like to see relief pitchers get more props in the hall.

When you think about it, how many relief pitchers ever last more than a few seasons? Not many. And maybe this is a hot topic, but I think guys who aren't necessarily thought of as closers need consideration. Take David Robertson for example. The guy's had a heck of a long career--16 seasons--and was never bad. He was a closer for some of it, but he's always been a guy you can count on to be a stabilizer in the bullpen. And he's been that for sixteen years. That's almost unheard of.

I disagree. Relievers do what they do because they can't start. Rivera was an exception. But even your elite career closers like Lee Smith only got to 28 WAR. They just don't have as much impact on the game as a top starter who pitches a whole lot more innings over their career. So a middle reliever, even a very solid one, clearly belongs in the hall of very good.

[An Old Friend]

I'd like to see relief pitchers get more props in the hall.

When you think about it, how many relief pitchers ever last more than a few seasons? Not many. And maybe this is a hot topic, but I think guys who aren't necessarily thought of as closers need consideration. Take David Robertson for example. The guy's had a heck of a long career--16 seasons--and was never bad. He was a closer for some of it, but he's always been a guy you can count on to be a stabilizer in the bullpen. And he's been that for sixteen years. That's almost unheard of.

I disagree. Relievers do what they do because they can't start. Rivera was an exception. But even your elite career closers like Lee Smith only got to 28 WAR. They just don't have as much impact on the game as a top starter who pitches a whole lot more innings over their career. So a middle reliever, even a very solid one, clearly belongs in the hall of very good.

Rivera was a starter

[Carp4Cy]

I'd like to see relief pitchers get more props in the hall.

When you think about it, how many relief pitchers ever last more than a few seasons? Not many. And maybe this is a hot topic, but I think guys who aren't necessarily thought of as closers need consideration. Take David Robertson for example. The guy's had a heck of a long career--16 seasons--and was never bad. He was a closer for some of it, but he's always been a guy you can count on to be a stabilizer in the bullpen. And he's been that for sixteen years. That's almost unheard of.

I disagree. Relievers do what they do because they can't start. Rivera was an exception. But even your elite career closers like Lee Smith only got to 28 WAR. They just don't have as much impact on the game as a top starter who pitches a whole lot more innings over their career. So a middle reliever, even a very solid one, clearly belongs in the hall of very good.

Rivera was a starter

Huh? He started 10 games in his career. He finished the most games all time with 952.

[An Old Friend]

I'd like to see relief pitchers get more props in the hall.

When you think about it, how many relief pitchers ever last more than a few seasons? Not many. And maybe this is a hot topic, but I think guys who aren't necessarily thought of as closers need consideration. Take David Robertson for example. The guy's had a heck of a long career--16 seasons--and was never bad. He was a closer for some of it, but he's always been a guy you can count on to be a stabilizer in the bullpen. And he's been that for sixteen years. That's almost unheard of.

I disagree. Relievers do what they do because they can't start. Rivera was an exception. But even your elite career closers like Lee Smith only got to 28 WAR. They just don't have as much impact on the game as a top starter who pitches a whole lot more innings over their career. So a middle reliever, even a very solid one, clearly belongs in the hall of very good.

Rivera was a starter

Huh? He started 10 games in his career. He finished the most games all time with 952.

You said Rivera was an exception to the “relievers do what they do because they can’t start”… but that’s why the Yankees made him a reliever.

[icon]

D. Eckersley

1988 - 1992

310 Games
1.90 ERA
0.79 WHiP
220 Saves
378 KO's

Eck's control was amazing. In '89, '90 and '91, he walked 3, 4 and 9 batters in 207 IP.

[rockondlouie]

D. Eckersley

1988 - 1992

310 Games
1.90 ERA
0.79 WHiP
220 Saves
378 KO's

Eck's control was amazing. In '89, '90 and '91, he walked 3, 4 and 9 batters in 207 IP.

I remember, that was insane control!

[ramfandan]

I see Craig Kimbrel signed back with the Braves, where he had five absolutely lights-out seasons as their closer before moving on to seven other teams, where he was increasingly less effective, no longer being trusted as a closer several years ago.

He pitched one inning of scoreless ball for Atlanta Friday...then was released. I haven't seen any backstory, but I wonder if this was arranged to allow him to retire as a Brave. Then again...the Braves addressed their disappointing season last week by firing their third base coach.

Look at Kimbrel's five seasons (plus Friday's one inning) as a Brave, and tell me any closer, at any time, was better: A 1.43 ERA and 477 Ks in 290 IP, so 60.8% of his outs with the Braves were strikeouts. I've never seen anyone better.

Now....is he a Hall of Famer?

2012-2016 Aroldis Chapman

12.4 bWAR
1.84 ERA
0.94 WHIP
15.7 K/9
546 K’s in 313.2 IP


Mariano Rivera had a 1.86 ERA/0.93 WHIP over a 9 year period from 2003-2011.

Emmanuel Clase had a 1.67 ERA/0.89 WHIP over his first 5 seasons from 2019-2024

J. Hader had a 0.85 WHiP, a 15.4 K/9 and 482 K's in his first 5 seasons from 2017 - 2021

Always liked Haderade when he was a Brewer ! Pretty unhittable

[Bomber1]

2002-03 Eric Gagne was ridiculous.

With the “goggle effect”!