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Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 21:13 pm
by An Old Friend
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 21:00 pm
Worried or not, you gotta let the guy pitch through it.
But there's always a chance that a guy who has been jerked around like he has and last threw over 86 innings in 2022 (115) is going to start to wear down at some point during the season. To be clear, I am not saying that is why he had a bad start tonight after a not great one his last start. It happens. But it's something that I think we'll have to keep in mind come August or September.
They should’ve pulled him when the velocity dropped. They HAVE to be in tune to that. Instead they sent him out for ANOTHER inning. That’s how you hurt guys.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 21:53 pm
by Adam2
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:09 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:05 pm
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:02 pm
Yes he's not a starter and neither is Pallante
1 month ago:
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 13:28 pm
Gray and Liberatore are turning into a nice 1-2 in the rotation
And he hasn't been good since.
Guess I jinxed him
Burned on the ole Libby post
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 21:55 pm
by Shady
blackinkbiz wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:11 pm
thetank2 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:06 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:05 pm
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:02 pm
Yes he's not a starter and neither is Pallante
1 month ago:
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 13:28 pm
Gray and Liberatore are turning into a nice 1-2 in the rotation
Vegas:
You change your mind every game?
It's a stupid message board about sports. Kneejerk and ridiculous comments should be encouraged. It's what allows fans a proper place to vent so their sports frustrations don't carry over into their real life.
I'm more concerned about a guy who remembers what someone said a month ago and takes the time to go back, look it up, and reproduce it. A little creepsters there. lol
Welcome to the club. Some of these CT message board historians can go back years on my posts. That's dedication. LOL
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 22:22 pm
by Futuregm2
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:12 pm
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:09 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:05 pm
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 20:02 pm
Yes he's not a starter and neither is Pallante
1 month ago:
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 13:28 pm
Gray and Liberatore are turning into a nice 1-2 in the rotation
And he hasn't been good since.
Guess I jinxed him
He has two bad starts and you turn on him not even the best pitchers go 32 perfect starts
it’s like you’ve never watched baseball before
I think you’ve figured him out.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 22:52 pm
by rightthinker4
Probably an IL visit. Hopefully not TJ. Not a good sign when velocity drops.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 22:55 pm
by 11WSChamps
With his pitch load last season and being a starter this year it was predictable some fatigue was going to settle in.
Skipping a start prior to AS might not be a bad idea. That would give him a pretty good dose of rest combined with the break to be refreshed for the final two plus months.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 22:59 pm
by BrockFloodMaris
rightthinker4 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 22:52 pm
Probably an IL visit. Hopefully not TJ. Not a good sign when velocity drops.
Wainwright used to talk about mid-season “dead arm”. Maybe Lib needs to skip a start. 30 starts and 150 innings are big numbers.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 23:19 pm
by An Old Friend
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 22:59 pm
rightthinker4 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 22:52 pm
Probably an IL visit. Hopefully not TJ. Not a good sign when velocity drops.
Wainwright used to talk about mid-season “dead arm”. Maybe Lib needs to skip a start. 30 starts and 150 innings are big numbers.
He’s pacing at 183 innings. I imagine at minimum he’ll get some extra rest before his next start, a 10 day IL could be perfect to basically skip 1 and come back on turn.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 23:53 pm
by stlbirdlover
I'm mildly concerned maybe skipping a turn in the rotation would be a good idea!
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 05 Jun 2025 23:54 pm
by Cardinals4Life
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 22:59 pm
rightthinker4 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 22:52 pm
Probably an IL visit. Hopefully not TJ. Not a good sign when velocity drops.
Wainwright used to talk about mid-season “dead arm”. Maybe Lib needs to skip a start
. 30 starts and 150 innings are big numbers.
Hahaha.....big numbers!
I know, I know what you mean. I get it this day and age, but man have guys become SOFT anymore?!?! Crazy, isnt it?!?
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 06 Jun 2025 00:53 am
by JuanAgosto
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 21:13 pm
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 21:00 pm
Worried or not, you gotta let the guy pitch through it.
But there's always a chance that a guy who has been jerked around like he has and last threw over 86 innings in 2022 (115) is going to start to wear down at some point during the season. To be clear, I am not saying that is why he had a bad start tonight after a not great one his last start. It happens. But it's something that I think we'll have to keep in mind come August or September.
They should’ve pulled him when the velocity dropped. They HAVE to be in tune to that. Instead they sent him out for ANOTHER inning. That’s how you hurt guys.
You think dumb[ash] oli even noticed the velocity drop? That goon just sits by the rail blankly staring at the field. He usually looks baked when the camera pans to him.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 06 Jun 2025 07:11 am
by Ronnie Dobbs
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 21:13 pm
They should’ve pulled him when the velocity dropped. They HAVE to be in tune to that. Instead they sent him out for ANOTHER inning. That’s how you hurt guys.
Yeah, totally. When the entire world can see that you are struggling to break 90, it might be time to pull the guy who has been given his first real long-term run as a starter.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 06 Jun 2025 07:36 am
by ecleme22
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 21:00 pm
Worried or not, you gotta let the guy pitch through it.
But there's always a chance that a guy who has been jerked around like he has and last threw over 86 innings in 2022 (115) is going to start to wear down at some point during the season. To be clear, I am not saying that is why he had a bad start tonight after a not great one his last start. It happens. But it's something that I think we'll have to keep in mind come August or September.
Ronnie, at some point, we can't blame what Libby does today on what Oli/Mo did 2 years ago. And we can't blame Oli on not removing Libby RIGHT after his fastball started to drop.
There's a little infantilization going on here.
When Libby does well: "Finally, they are giving him a chance!"
When Libby doesn't do well: "That dumb Oli... blah blah."
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 06 Jun 2025 07:40 am
by An Old Friend
ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 07:36 am
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 21:00 pm
Worried or not, you gotta let the guy pitch through it.
But there's always a chance that a guy who has been jerked around like he has and last threw over 86 innings in 2022 (115) is going to start to wear down at some point during the season. To be clear, I am not saying that is why he had a bad start tonight after a not great one his last start. It happens. But it's something that I think we'll have to keep in mind come August or September.
Ronnie, at some point, we can't blame what Libby does today on what Oli/Mo did 2 years ago. And we can't blame Oli on not removing Libby RIGHT after his fastball started to drop.
There's a little infantilization going on here.
When Libby does well: "Finally, they are giving him a chance!"
When Libby doesn't do well: "That dumb Oli... blah blah."
OK, don't be ridiculous. Velocity drop is a major waiving red flag. ANY pitcher should be pulled when there is an in-game sharp velocity drop like that.
There's no reason to suggest otherwise. Why would YOU advocate that a pitcher who has sudden velocity loss should STAY out there? I'd love to see your reasoning.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 06 Jun 2025 07:49 am
by ecleme22
An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 07:40 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 07:36 am
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑05 Jun 2025 21:00 pm
Worried or not, you gotta let the guy pitch through it.
But there's always a chance that a guy who has been jerked around like he has and last threw over 86 innings in 2022 (115) is going to start to wear down at some point during the season. To be clear, I am not saying that is why he had a bad start tonight after a not great one his last start. It happens. But it's something that I think we'll have to keep in mind come August or September.
Ronnie, at some point, we can't blame what Libby does today on what Oli/Mo did 2 years ago. And we can't blame Oli on not removing Libby RIGHT after his fastball started to drop.
There's a little infantilization going on here.
When Libby does well: "Finally, they are giving him a chance!"
When Libby doesn't do well: "That dumb Oli... blah blah."
OK, don't be ridiculous. Velocity drop is a major waiving red flag. ANY pitcher should be pulled when there is an in-game sharp velocity drop like that.
There's no reason to suggest otherwise. Why would YOU advocate that a pitcher who has sudden velocity loss should STAY out there? I'd love to see your reasoning.
I think the infantilizing and blaming are a little ridiculous.
Dude hits a wall on June 5th, and we are blaming it on how Oli pitched him in 2023. And we are also blaming Oli for not noticing the fatigue right away.
Jeez... I know Libby is your pet project, but this is getting a little ridiculous.
Re: Uh oh, should we be worried about the Libster?
Posted: 06 Jun 2025 08:04 am
by ScotchMIrish
Full time starter until 2023 when he made 11 starts and 11 bullpen appearances. 2024 6 starts 54 relief appearances. 2025 full time starter.
Seems like an odd way to build up stamina in a young pitcher if you want him to be a starter.