Catcher Pages/Pozo

[moose-and-squirrel]

I believe people are selling Pages short.

He's doing the job now defensively and handling a starting staff that is by all accounts overachieving. I don't believe in coincidences.

Sure he could be better offensively but he's had some clutch hits and has solidified a position where Herrera left a gaping hole.

Let's not forget Crooks and Bernal haven't proved anything up
here yet. Admittedly they have higher offensive ceilings but they'll have to take the job from him when the time
comes. It won't just be handed to them.

why not? they tried handing it to Ivan..

[RunSup]

I keep waiting for Pozo to get sent down. Herrera gets more starts at catcher and then more runway for Gorman opens.

But glad he was there today. Herrera's injury extends his opportunity.

Bernal and Crooks will eventually end the Pozo era of Cardinals catching. Should happen next year. The Pages era will last longer. But will see how long.

[Goldfan]

IDK but they need to rip off POZO’s jersey every game and let his dad bod shine in all its glory…..
The lean mean fit muscled Gorman and Noot attempted to blast a walk off HR and popped up to 3b while Jackie Gleason physique POZO wins the game with a well bat controlled dink to RF……Bless him and his extremely HIGH BMI

[11WSChamps]

I believe people are selling Pages short.

He's doing the job now defensively and handling a starting staff that is by all accounts overachieving. I don't believe in coincidences.

Sure he could be better offensively but he's had some clutch hits and has solidified a position where Herrera left a gaping hole.

Let's not forget Crooks and Bernal haven't proved anything up
here yet. Admittedly they have higher offensive ceilings but they'll have to take the job from him when the time
comes. It won't just be handed to them.

why not? they tried handing it to Ivan..

Yeah we see how that turned out.

[renostl]

One thing I don't get about Pagés: is he really an upgrade over Andrew Knizner?

Pitchers loved Kniz and he was good defensively. Light hitter (very light). If Mo/whoever didn't want Knizner, why would they want Pagés as a permanent solution?

I like the use of the word "placeholder" to describe what we have now. I'm sure like Knizner, Pages hopes he can hang onto this job just by virtue of working well with the staff, but he shouldn't.

And you can bet that this offseason, Herrera is going to be learning at least one new position. Nobody is slotting him in at C in years to come.

The OP said it doesn't "seem" like he can catch...but he literally cannot throw out a runner. That won't work over 162 game season. He had good pop times and so forth, which is why people around the org (and some fans) thought he could get there with more training and experience.

But then he showed up in 2025 and clearly he is not going to get there. Right now it looks like he can work his way up from the bottom 1st percentile to the bottom 10th. If they could only just get him to the bottom 25th percentile, if he's going to hit like Albert Pujols, that would be easily overlooked. (Think Mike Piazza, maybe?) Is he going to OPS 1.000 for another 5-6 years? Highly doubtful. Although if he can OPS .600 he would still be higher than around 4 guys in the lineup some days.

PS I like Pagés. I just don't see him as being the catcher of the future when the org has 17 catchers, and when his profile is pretty similar to another guy they got rid of.

Maybe they think Pages can learn to be a hitter, like Yadi did. But when you have catchers that can already hit coming up, why go with the experiment?

Knizner wasn’t really a good defensive catcher though.

Career -20 DRS, CS% of 19.3% when league average was 21.8%.

Pages on the other hand is +8 DRS and 22.1% with league average of 21.3%. This year specifically, he’s improved in that area with 31% CS% when the league average is 23.8%.

And with the bat Pages has a .640 OPS in 358 PA while Knizner had a .579 OPS through his first 553 PAs.

Pages is a bit better with the bat and considerably better defensively. He’s not the long term solution for sure, but I don’t mind the catcher situation for this year while giving time to Crooks and Bernal to develop.

Ideally they are all the second-string catcher.
If we look at Pages, Herrera, and Pozo as the C who gets
50-60 starts I can see it becoming a bit more of a subjective discussion.

[Wattage]

Ideally, it'd be great if Herrera was serviceable enough defensively to catch 100 games a year. But, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Thus, is Pages our best option as the catcher getting the majority of the starts? Is he really that good defensively to make up for a .615 OPS? I am asking opinions, because I am not sure. How does Pozo compare defensively? I am convinced that Pozo is the superior hitter of the two. From my eye test, Pozo also appears to be adequate behind the dish as well. Should Pozo be getting more starts? I think Pozo should at least be starting 2 out of 5 games if not moving towards a split of time w/ Pages. If Pozo shows to have many defensive holes, can't control the running game, or has a bad rapport with the starting staff then you go back to a majority Pages approach. But if he holds his own in all of those aspects then Pozo's offense could be an additional jolt to the offense.

I definitely think pozo should start more. I also think pages hits better when he doesnt play as much and get overexposed.

[Wattage]

One thing I don't get about Pagés: is he really an upgrade over Andrew Knizner?

Pitchers loved Kniz and he was good defensively. Light hitter (very light). If Mo/whoever didn't want Knizner, why would they want Pagés as a permanent solution?

I like the use of the word "placeholder" to describe what we have now. I'm sure like Knizner, Pages hopes he can hang onto this job just by virtue of working well with the staff, but he shouldn't.

And you can bet that this offseason, Herrera is going to be learning at least one new position. Nobody is slotting him in at C in years to come.

The OP said it doesn't "seem" like he can catch...but he literally cannot throw out a runner. That won't work over 162 game season. He had good pop times and so forth, which is why people around the org (and some fans) thought he could get there with more training and experience.

But then he showed up in 2025 and clearly he is not going to get there. Right now it looks like he can work his way up from the bottom 1st percentile to the bottom 10th. If they could only just get him to the bottom 25th percentile, if he's going to hit like Albert Pujols, that would be easily overlooked. (Think Mike Piazza, maybe?) Is he going to OPS 1.000 for another 5-6 years? Highly doubtful. Although if he can OPS .600 he would still be higher than around 4 guys in the lineup some days.

PS I like Pagés. I just don't see him as being the catcher of the future when the org has 17 catchers, and when his profile is pretty similar to another guy they got rid of.

Maybe they think Pages can learn to be a hitter, like Yadi did. But when you have catchers that can already hit coming up, why go with the experiment?

Knizner wasnt nearly as good defensively against pages and his offense has been invisible outside that one year.

Id like to point out also that pages was never supposed to be the answer. The cardinals were hoping herrera would sticl this year but he hasnt. I definitely think pozo should be getting more starts. Pages definitely isnt a starter.

[ClassicO]

Ideally, it'd be great if Herrera was serviceable enough defensively to catch 100 games a year. But, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Thus, is Pages our best option as the catcher getting the majority of the starts? Is he really that good defensively to make up for a .615 OPS? I am asking opinions, because I am not sure. How does Pozo compare defensively? I am convinced that Pozo is the superior hitter of the two. From my eye test, Pozo also appears to be adequate behind the dish as well. Should Pozo be getting more starts? I think Pozo should at least be starting 2 out of 5 games if not moving towards a split of time w/ Pages. If Pozo shows to have many defensive holes, can't control the running game, or has a bad rapport with the starting staff then you go back to a majority Pages approach. But if he holds his own in all of those aspects then Pozo's offense could be an additional jolt to the offense.

These two are placeholders for Crooks a lefty hitter and or Bernal a big switch hitter who has been taking off at Springfield lately.

Agree - at least one of Bernal and/or Crooks will be on the team next year.

[Ozziesfan41]

It’s going to be a tough call. With automated strike call coming he won’t be quite as important I’m hoping Bernal gets it long term he can hit and field. Herrera needs to DH he’s too good of a hitter to get rid of just to give hitters an occasional day off. I would rather them give the hitters that field days off instead of sticking them at DH when you have Herrera who is a good hitter who can DH get capable backups

[scoutyjones2]

POZO is not as good defensively or throwing, as Pages
But I feel he's a better hitter, and not Herrera level bad defensively

[Whatashame]

I look at this a little bit differently. Who would have thought that in June of 2025 that our top two catchers on the Cardinals would be Pages and Pozo! Who would have thought that these two would have been as productive as they have.

The Cardinals quickly moved on from Herrera and Pages and Pozo have allowed the Cardinals to develop their catching prospects at the AAA and AA levels while providing some quality catching at the ML level. It sounds like our catching is only going to get better. Hats off to the current catchers.

Did any of us know who Pozo was. Most of us snickered when it was announced he was going to make the team. He does a decent job as a backup catcher and really gives you a quality AB that doesn’t strike out much. We have better times ahead and Pages and Pozo have been a nice bridge waiting for the future catchers to develop.

[Basil Shabazz]

Jesus F’n Christopher!!

Play Pozo Oli!! The dude can freaking hit.

And from what I’ve seen there isn’t that much of a gap defensively.

[bccardsfan]

Jesus F’n Christopher!!

Play Pozo Oli!! The dude can freaking hit.

And from what I’ve seen there isn’t that much of a gap defensively.

Exactly. I have wanted Pozo to be the main catcher for a couple of week or more now. He is in a hot streak at the plate and can hit. Pages is in a cold streak and cannot right now. I don't see all that much difference defensively. With IH out and Noot cold again, we need all the offense we can get. Play Pozo....

[ClassicO]

Jesus F’n Christopher!!

Play Pozo Oli!! The dude can freaking hit.

And from what I’ve seen there isn’t that much of a gap defensively.

There's not much diff defensively and Pozo is clearly the better hitter - for now. He doesn't walk at all (1.3%), but doesn't strike out either (9.6%).

Pages better at CS but...
Pages is a PB/WP machine - 19 WPs and 6 PBs in 520 innings. And many of the WPs are PBs since he doesn't move.
Pozo---------------------------- 6 WP and 1 PB in 168 innings.

[TraveledLessRoad]

The dude's been playing Minor League baseball for 10 years and sports a career .303 Batting Average and a .740 OBP...his ability to hit isn't a fluke. Just play him. Heck, that fat catcher Kirk from the Blue Jays can't be that much better defensively and everybody was clamoring for us to trade for him before we signed Contreras.

[Wattage]

I look at this a little bit differently. Who would have thought that in June of 2025 that our top two catchers on the Cardinals would be Pages and Pozo! Who would have thought that these two would have been as productive as they have.

The Cardinals quickly moved on from Herrera and Pages and Pozo have allowed the Cardinals to develop their catching prospects at the AAA and AA levels while providing some quality catching at the ML level. It sounds like our catching is only going to get better. Hats off to the current catchers.

Did any of us know who Pozo was. Most of us snickered when it was announced he was going to make the team. He does a decent job as a backup catcher and really gives you a quality AB that doesn’t strike out much. We have better times ahead and Pages and Pozo have been a nice bridge waiting for the future catchers to develop.

To be fair, pozo has always hit over .300 in the minors at every level. The reason most had a problem and probably why he hasnt gotten majors shot is his teen incident