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Futuregm2 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:30 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:10 pm

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:27 pm 88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

Does Tim Lincecum get in?

Lincecum had more than half of his career with an ERA over 4. He had 3 great seasons and 1 good one. And a 19 career bWAR.

DeGrom has an ERA over 3 in 3 “seasons” with a high of 3.53. Yes, he had health issues. But when he was on the field there has never been any denying that he had elite elite elite elite elite talent.

Good God, I think you were short a few elite, elite, elite, elites. Part of being an elite pitcher is enduring the rigors of pitching, which DeGrom definitely could not do. Pedro Martinez was elite. Bob Gibson was elite. DeGrom was just two seasons with 200 innings pitched with an ERA under 3.00. He's basically a poor man's Joe Wood.

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:01 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:30 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:10 pm

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:27 pm 88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

Does Tim Lincecum get in?

Lincecum had more than half of his career with an ERA over 4. He had 3 great seasons and 1 good one. And a 19 career bWAR.

DeGrom has an ERA over 3 in 3 “seasons” with a high of 3.53. Yes, he had health issues. But when he was on the field there has never been any denying that he had elite elite elite elite elite talent.

Good God, I think you were short a few elite, elite, elite, elites. Part of being an elite pitcher is enduring the rigors of pitching, which DeGrom definitely could not do. Pedro Martinez was elite. Bob Gibson was elite. DeGrom was just two seasons with 200 innings pitched with an ERA under 3.00. He's basically a poor man's Joe Wood.

Exactly he’s 37 years old and has started 30 more games 4 times in his entire career the only thing reliable about him was he was going to be miss a lot of starts

Degrom is a lock. As many others have stated none better in recent history when healthy.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 17:55 pm I don’t think he deserves to get in. Just four seasons of 30 or more starts is awful. I don’t care if he is good if he only makes a few starts a year he shouldn’t be in

Right.

JD would need to be productive until at least 41 years old. Thats 4+ more years.

150 wins and 2500ks might get him in.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:12 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 17:55 pm I don’t think he deserves to get in. Just four seasons of 30 or more starts is awful. I don’t care if he is good if he only makes a few starts a year he shouldn’t be in

Right.

JD would need to be productive until at least 41 years old. Thats 4+ more years.

150 wins and 2500ks might get him in.

Agree and on top of that he’s 37 and has only pitched in 100 or more innings 6 times in his entire career just 6 times in his entire career with 100 innings lol ridiculous to even consider him for the hall of fame at this point

Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:19 pm Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

lol you would be constantly looking for a top of the rotation pitcher because he would always be on the IL

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:31 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:19 pm Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

lol you would be constantly looking for a top of the rotation pitcher because he would always be on the IL

That's fine, and when he's healthy I'd have two.

With the benefit of hindsight how many pitchers would you take instead of deGrom over the last 10-15 years? Three or four which have been mentioned (Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, Grienke), then it gets pretty tricky. Maybe Sale and/or Cole.

Since the start of 2014 only Scherzer and Kershaw have more fWAR.

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:31 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:19 pm Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

lol you would be constantly looking for a top of the rotation pitcher because he would always be on the IL

That's fine, and when he's healthy I'd have two.

With the benefit of hindsight how many pitchers would you take instead of deGrom over the last 10-15 years? Three or four which have been mentioned (Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, Grienke), then it gets pretty tricky. Maybe Sale and/or Cole.

Since the start of 2014 only Scherzer and Kershaw have more fWAR.

How would you have two? He only makes enough starts for the equivalent of a spot starter. With the benefit of hindsight I would even take Adam wainwright over Degrom for a career and wouldn’t think twice. Wainwright 100 or more innings 13 times in his career degrom just 6 times of 100 or more innings in 12 seasons wainwright 200 wins degrom 88 wainwright 200 innings or more 5 times degrom 3 times wainwright 29 complete games degrom 4 complete games wainwright 11 shutouts degrom 2 shutouts lol if I’m getting a pitcher I want one who is going to actually pitch for me

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:30 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:10 pm

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:27 pm 88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

Does Tim Lincecum get in?

Lincecum had more than half of his career with an ERA over 4. He had 3 great seasons and 1 good one. And a 19 career bWAR.

DeGrom has an ERA over 3 in 3 “seasons” with a high of 3.53. Yes, he had health issues. But when he was on the field there has never been any denying that he had elite elite elite elite elite talent.

DeGrom all day over Lincecum....

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:19 pm Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

What?

That’s insane.

3dender wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:52 pm

3dender wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:28 pm Clear HOFer, especially with the serious decline in pitcher longevity after the last 4 locks retire (Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, Greinke).

He and Sale are the surest locks of the next generation imo.

The first three you listed are slam dunk 1st ballot.

I don't put Greinke in their class, may take him a couple ballots to get in.

Greinke has more bWAR than Scherzer, 3 less than Verlander and 2 less than Kershaw. By fWAR he is further away but still has 66 WAR. Just cause he wasn't as sexy as the rest of them doesn't mean he's not every bit as deserving.

But you're right, for whatever reason fans/experts seem to have a blind spot with him so I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't go 1st ballot. He definitely should though.

I’m an easy no on deGrom and I think Greinke could be a first ballot guy.

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:19 pm Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

Mariano Rivera is the only pitcher in baseball history to have a better adjusted ERA+ than Wagner’s 187.

Smith’s was 132.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑22 May 2025 20:36 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:19 pm Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

Mariano Rivera is the only pitcher in baseball history to have a better adjusted ERA+ than Wagner’s 187.

Smith’s was 132.

deGrom has a 156 ERA+ in 1425 IP. Wagner pitched 903 innings.

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 20:40 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑22 May 2025 20:36 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 18:19 pm Is Billy Wagner or Lee Smith a better pitcher than deGrom? If I had my pick starting a team i take deGrom every time, injuries and all.

Mariano Rivera is the only pitcher in baseball history to have a better adjusted ERA+ than Wagner’s 187.

Smith’s was 132.

deGrom has a 156 ERA+ in 1425 IP. Wagner pitched 903 innings.

Relievers have different bars to clear than starters for the HOF. That's just the way it is.

3dender wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:28 pm Clear HOFer, especially with the serious decline in pitcher longevity after the last 4 locks retire (Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, Greinke).

He and Sale are the surest locks of the next generation imo.

deGrom has about 5 years of total dominance, and the rest is marred by injuries. Personally I wouldn’t use win totals as a measuring stick for HoF worthiness, but he might be lucky to even reach 100 wins - that might be a deal breaker with the writers.