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Posted: **05 Aug 2025 10:23 am**

redbirdfan51 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 09:27 am Wetherholt, Sagesse, and Gorman are the replacements as of now. Cards need to add some pitching. I would like to see what Gorman could do at 3b on a full time basis. Maybe even in a platoon situation with Sagesse.

Gorman seems to be a better fielder at 2nd than at 3rd. Third base will be a problem again in 2026.

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 11:27 am**

Bully4you wrote: ↑20 May 2025 08:11 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 May 2025 08:10 am I was thinking about Longoria the other day in this regard.

I do think that NA may age a little better given his better glove.
He made me think of Eva.
Now I can't get her out of my head

She's had the same career path.

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 11:34 am**

Cards have until they move Arenado to get them a replacement 3B...an ACTAUL 3B, not just plug someone in.

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 11:35 am**

JDW wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 10:04 am
kyace wrote: ↑20 May 2025 09:50 am Extend Donovan and put him at third base. Saggesse needs to take the Donovan role as super sub. This opens second for Wetherholt. Herrera needs to learn how to play left field this off season. He’s athletic enough to handle it. Nootbar and Gorman are trade chips. Noot is not going to sign an extension and if he stays healthy rest of year and does well should bring in a good return with two years of control left. Gorman needs a fresh start elsewhere.
Writing this on May 20 showed good insight. A lineup close to what you were suggesting just using players currently on the roster looks pretty good to me.

Donovan 3B or 2B
Wetherholt 2B or 3B
Herrera LF/DH
Contreras 1B
Burleson DH/LF
Winn SS
Crooks/Pages or Pozo C
?/Noot/Walker/Baez RF
Scott CF

Bench of Saggese, Pages or Pozo, Church, Fermin or Prieto.

You're stuck with Pozo now. His legend just keeps getting bigger. Maybe throw him in on a trade with one of those 1B/DH/OFers for a SP.

You got rid of Gorman. Interesting,

No room for Prieto or Fermin. Would like to see a spot filled by Church.

Nado takes up a bench spot until moved.

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 11:52 am**

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑20 May 2025 07:55 am In hindsight, Nado was a genius for not opting out.

Uh, what?

He could have opted out after his MVP-caliber 2022. He had about $140MM remaining on his contract.

It’s reasonable to imagine he could have scored a 7-year deal (age 32-38 seasons). Even at a lower AAV of $28MM he would be guaranteed $58MM more. That’s genius?

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 11:55 am**

RunSup wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 11:35 am
JDW wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 10:04 am
kyace wrote: ↑20 May 2025 09:50 am Extend Donovan and put him at third base. Saggesse needs to take the Donovan role as super sub. This opens second for Wetherholt. Herrera needs to learn how to play left field this off season. He’s athletic enough to handle it. Nootbar and Gorman are trade chips. Noot is not going to sign an extension and if he stays healthy rest of year and does well should bring in a good return with two years of control left. Gorman needs a fresh start elsewhere.
Writing this on May 20 showed good insight. A lineup close to what you were suggesting just using players currently on the roster looks pretty good to me.

Donovan 3B or 2B
Wetherholt 2B or 3B
Herrera LF/DH
Contreras 1B
Burleson DH/LF
Winn SS
Crooks/Pages or Pozo C
?/Noot/Walker/Baez RF
Scott CF

Bench of Saggese, Pages or Pozo, Church, Fermin or Prieto.
You're stuck with Pozo now. His legend just keeps getting bigger. Maybe throw him in on a trade with one of those 1B/DH/OFers for a SP.

You got rid of Gorman. Interesting,

No room for Prieto or Fermin. Would like to see a spot filled by Church.

Nado takes up a bench spot until moved.

PS. If Saggese showed Pozo's bat control and mindset at the plate, he'd be more than a replacement level JAG. He plays the right positions. His bat? ... needs more runway is a nice way to put it.

Right now Saggese can't even be trusted to lay down a bunt. That was a tailor made squeeze play opportunity last night. Maybe Oli didn't have the cohones to call it. Maybe Saggese just can't bunt.

This ain't Whitey Ball we are watching. Thank the gods for sending Yohel Pozo down from the heavens and blessing his bat last night.

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 13:48 pm**

Don't know how we tailored off from original conversation of Longoria vs. Arenado, but got to disagree on levels of players they were. This is just an opinion and while splits are there for Arenado at Coors, still don't think it is close.

Longoria - More clutch player in playoffs, good overall defender, and his first 3-4 years were all-star and mvp type. 3 all star appearances overall and 3 top 10 mvp voting years.

Arenado - 10 GG's alone to me along with similar offensive production, but higher batting average, 6 top 10 mvp voting (all top 8 to be honest), and had 2 of his best power numbers here in St. Lou too. So just looking at power numbers at Arenado since that is what Coors is known for - below are the years.

2015 - Home 78 games - 20 homers
Away - 79 games - 22 homers

2016 - Home - 25 homers
Away - 16 homers
- drastic difference, but still even if away, 32 homers pace

2017 - home - 19 homers
Away - 18 homers

2018 - Home - 23 homers
Away - 15 homers
Another drastic difference, but still 30 homer pace

2019 - Home - 21 homers
Away - 20 homers

To me, if you look more in advanced, the rbi's and average is way higher at Coors. However, he is still on pace for many 30 homer/100 rbi type years with some of the best defense at 3rd.

Would this qualify for HOF? I don't know, but to me, is way more than Evan Longoria's career. I just make it simple - top 5 defense of all time along with being a consistent middle of order hitter - those are rare. The defense and honestly his power was way more consistent than Evan's. JMO

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 14:59 pm**

Othawhitemeat wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 13:48 pm Don't know how we tailored off from original conversation of Longoria vs. Arenado, but got to disagree on levels of players they were. This is just an opinion and while splits are there for Arenado at Coors, still don't think it is close.

Longoria - More clutch player in playoffs, good overall defender, and his first 3-4 years were all-star and mvp type. 3 all star appearances overall and 3 top 10 mvp voting years.

Arenado - 10 GG's alone to me along with similar offensive production, but higher batting average, 6 top 10 mvp voting (all top 8 to be honest), and had 2 of his best power numbers here in St. Lou too. So just looking at power numbers at Arenado since that is what Coors is known for - below are the years.

2015 - Home 78 games - 20 homers
Away - 79 games - 22 homers

2016 - Home - 25 homers
Away - 16 homers
- drastic difference, but still even if away, 32 homers pace

2017 - home - 19 homers
Away - 18 homers

2018 - Home - 23 homers
Away - 15 homers
Another drastic difference, but still 30 homer pace

2019 - Home - 21 homers
Away - 20 homers

To me, if you look more in advanced, the rbi's and average is way higher at Coors. However, he is still on pace for many 30 homer/100 rbi type years with some of the best defense at 3rd.

Would this qualify for HOF? I don't know, but to me, is way more than Evan Longoria's career. I just make it simple - top 5 defense of all time along with being a consistent middle of order hitter - those are rare. The defense and honestly his power was way more consistent than Evan's. JMO

8206 PAs 342/1159 .264 .333 .471 .804
7472 PAs 351/1175 .282 .339 .507 .847

One played at Coors for 8 seasons where he posted .319.374.605.980 in 2370 PAs. He also hasn't played the extra three swan seasons that Longoria played which will further drive down his percentage stats.

I'll give you that Nado was and is the superior defender. But, offensively, they are very close.

Posted: **05 Aug 2025 15:19 pm**

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 14:59 pm
Othawhitemeat wrote: ↑05 Aug 2025 13:48 pm Don't know how we tailored off from original conversation of Longoria vs. Arenado, but got to disagree on levels of players they were. This is just an opinion and while splits are there for Arenado at Coors, still don't think it is close.

Longoria - More clutch player in playoffs, good overall defender, and his first 3-4 years were all-star and mvp type. 3 all star appearances overall and 3 top 10 mvp voting years.

Arenado - 10 GG's alone to me along with similar offensive production, but higher batting average, 6 top 10 mvp voting (all top 8 to be honest), and had 2 of his best power numbers here in St. Lou too. So just looking at power numbers at Arenado since that is what Coors is known for - below are the years.

2015 - Home 78 games - 20 homers
Away - 79 games - 22 homers

2016 - Home - 25 homers
Away - 16 homers
- drastic difference, but still even if away, 32 homers pace

2017 - home - 19 homers
Away - 18 homers

2018 - Home - 23 homers
Away - 15 homers
Another drastic difference, but still 30 homer pace

2019 - Home - 21 homers
Away - 20 homers

To me, if you look more in advanced, the rbi's and average is way higher at Coors. However, he is still on pace for many 30 homer/100 rbi type years with some of the best defense at 3rd.

Would this qualify for HOF? I don't know, but to me, is way more than Evan Longoria's career. I just make it simple - top 5 defense of all time along with being a consistent middle of order hitter - those are rare. The defense and honestly his power was way more consistent than Evan's. JMO
8206 PAs 342/1159 .264 .333 .471 .804
7472 PAs 351/1175 .282 .339 .507 .847

One played at Coors for 8 seasons where he posted .319.374.605.980 in 2370 PAs. He also hasn't played the extra three swan seasons that Longoria played which will further drive down his percentage stats.

I'll give you that Nado was and is the superior defender. But, offensively, they are very close.

Alright, I'm going to be nit-picky because I am agreeing the splits are huge for Nolan in Colorado, but in St. Lou, not known for being a hitters' park, if you count the tail-end of Nolan's of Nolan's Prime, not his career as last year and this year, he is obviously not the same just like the last 3 years of Evan Longoria.

1st 3 years for Nolan at end of his prime on average with the Cards
.271ba/.823 ops and 30 homer/100 rbi on average with gg defense. Evan Longoria has had 4 total seasons of 30 or more homers, 2 total seasons of 100 rbi or more with 2 other seasons of in the upper 90's. Then look at Longoria at age 31 and 32 compared to Nolan. Again, if you factor in defense, it is not close. While the numbers would not be the same for Nolan like in Coors, he has proven to be the far superior player even in Busch at 30-32. Evan is more clutch, but if the case they are similar, they really are not. If I had to guess looking at the splits, Nolan A would have been a .275 hitter at Busch his whole career and in prime a 33/34 homer type guy with 105 rbi's for 7-8 years. That is way above what Evan did.

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