kyace wrote: ↑15 May 2025 23:21 pm
I am surprised as to how short sighted some of you are. Williams has been the best reliever in baseball the past 4 to 5 years and is healthy. He came back from the back injury and pitched well last year also. His issue seems more of a mental block than physical. Sonny Gray stunk it up in New York also. Yankees sold low on him to the Reds who came out big in that deal getting him for 3 very good years of pitching for a comp pick. The thinking was maybe they think Williams won’t succeed there like Sonny didn’t and move on.
Yankees would most likely never do this deal anyway. Williams was his dominant self his last few appearances. He would have to really struggle the next few months for them to deal him based upon his track record. He gives them a better chance to go to the WS than Matz would.
Shows me the lack of imagination and willingness to make a gamble that appears to have permeated the Cards and their fans. Matz is likely not going to bring back a meaningful prospect. Too many question marks health wise with him. Cards are unlikely to pay down his salary as seen with Arenado so that also lowers his value. My bet is Williams even if not as dominant as before would still bring back more prospect wise than Matz at the deadline based upon his track record and that he cost less than Matz.
Yes making this trade would be a gamble as I said. However if it paid off it would open a lot more options for the Cards. A combination of Williams and Helsley at the end of games would give the Cards a dominant bullpen as good as any in the game. It would give them the best chance to compete for the division crown and also in the playoffs where bullpens rule. If the Cards are not in contention than they have what has been two of the top closers in baseball to deal.
LoL. To many health issues with Matz but not Williams...
Tommy John in 2017, fracturing his pitching hand after drinking alcohol and punching a wall following the celebrations in 2021, 2024 surgery for 2 back stress fractures
HorseTrader wrote: ↑16 May 2025 08:19 am
I'd probably say no and I think the Yankees would say no. However, I would consider Munoz for Williams but the Yankees would sure say no to that
For all personnel actions I want the new guy do the trade. He has no dog in our fight. He comes in with clean hands, clean slate.
I think with this team, minus Matz Nik Nado and Helmsley, with keen additions, buy a stud. Could compete for pennant in 2027.
Here and there hearing that Chaim Bloom may make a splash in acquiring a 'star' type player ...Fernando Tatis, Jr. mentioned
Tatis father played for the Cardinals . The negatives to overcome is the 'no trade' clause that needs to be waived, his drug suspension previously and a BIG contract .
The positive on him is .300 hitter with .900+ OPS .. 26 years old so entering prime years now .. contract runs thru 2035 so locked up for 10 more years.
Currently making $20M per year ..sounds odd but with salaries always increasing (Soto's deal etc ) , paying $20+ M per year for the next 10 years would actually by quite doable .
A trade for him would be a blockbuster for sure .
Padres new ownership seems to want to reduce some of the big monies . They have Machado making a ton too.
Cards have past history of acquiring name guys ... Edmonds, Holliday , Goldy , Arenado
Bloom would have quite the young trio to build the team around ... VS II, Masyn Winn, and Tatis Jr. quite a core nucleus for Bloom to add complimentary youngsters around him .
Heard Bloom is type to make a splash. Would he deal for a Tatis Jr . ? (If Tatis would be open to coming to St. Louis Of course, the Cubs, Yankee types would be all over him too .
PS Acquring a player of his 'star' status would put butts in the seats and ownership sure wants more attendance. So part of his mega deal is offset by increased attendance having a bonafide star caliber player.
Ok, so the consensus is no based upon how they are currently performing. Hopefully Matz stays healthy and either helps the Cards reach the playoffs or gets traded and brings back a decent prospect. I was basing this on the Sonny Gray time in New York where he too struggled and endured the wrath of that fan base and media. I was posting on this site at the time hoping the Cards would trade for him then. If the Cards had dealt for him in March 2019 things most likely would have turned out different with him on the pitching staff for the years that followed.
I think the Yankees will give Williams a chance to turn things around despite what the fan base wants and he has pitched better his last few outings. I follow the Yankees and their fan base are brutal regarding their opinions on Williams and the media not much better. I know he was heavily booed after some of his outings. Sometimes that gets to a player who was used to pitching in a smaller market.However the Yankees are not going to just give him away and would want something decent back for him.
ramfandan wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:30 am
Here and there hearing that Chaim Bloom may make a splash in acquiring a 'star' type player ...Fernando Tatis, Jr. mentioned
Tatis father played for the Cardinals . The negatives to overcome is the 'no trade' clause that needs to be waived, his drug suspension previously and a BIG contract .
The positive on him is .300 hitter with .900+ OPS .. 26 years old so entering prime years now .. contract runs thru 2035 so locked up for 10 more years.
Currently making $20M per year ..sounds odd but with salaries always increasing (Soto's deal etc ) , paying $20+ M per year for the next 10 years would actually by quite doable .
A trade for him would be a blockbuster for sure .
Padres new ownership seems to want to reduce some of the big monies . They have Machado making a ton too.
Cards have past history of acquiring name guys ... Edmonds, Holliday , Goldy , Arenado
Bloom would have quite the young trio to build the team around ... VS II, Masyn Winn, and Tatis Jr. quite a core nucleus for Bloom to add complimentary youngsters around him .
Heard Bloom is type to make a splash. Would he deal for a Tatis Jr . ? (If Tatis would be open to coming to St. Louis Of course, the Cubs, Yankee types would be all over him too .
PS Acquring a player of his 'star' status would put butts in the seats and ownership sure wants more attendance. So part of his mega deal is offset by increased attendance having a bonafide star caliber player.
After this season, in the off season they add a stud. Part of the plan. Add the star to a young core with a year under their belts. Could be third baseman could be league Ace could be corner outfielder. But a star is coming.
JDW wrote: ↑16 May 2025 07:04 am
What if it was Arenado for Williams and a good prospect?
Donovan to 3B, Sagesse to 2B.
This potentially makes the bullpen better, while freeing up 40+mil.
Do I think Williams can rebound?
Do I think Arenado can sustain an OPS over .700 in 2025, 2026 and 2027?
I thought about a deal Ike that too. However reports are the Yankees aren’t interested in Arenado due to his contract. They would most likely want the Cards to take back LeMahieu and his contract if they do a deal.
The Yankees are going to make a move for the Japanese third baseman posting next year or put their top prospect Lombard at third so they are not wanting to tie themselves down at third with a player beyond this year.
kyace wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:40 am
Ok, so the consensus is no based upon how they are currently performing. Hopefully Matz stays healthy and either helps the Cards reach the playoffs or gets traded and brings back a decent prospect. I was basing this on the Sonny Gray time in New York where he too struggled and endured the wrath of that fan base and media. I was posting on this site at the time hoping the Cards would trade for him then. If the Cards had dealt for him in March 2019 things most likely would have turned out different with him on the pitching staff for the years that followed.
I think the Yankees will give Williams a chance to turn things around despite what the fan base wants and he has pitched better his last few outings. I follow the Yankees and their fan base are brutal regarding their opinions on Williams and the media not much better. I know he was heavily booed after some of his outings. Sometimes that gets to a player who was used to pitching in a smaller market.However the Yankees are not going to just give him away and would want something decent back for him.
He will stay healthy, he doesn't get hurt in contract years
ramfandan wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:30 am
Here and there hearing that Chaim Bloom may make a splash in acquiring a 'star' type player ...Fernando Tatis, Jr. mentioned
Tatis father played for the Cardinals . The negatives to overcome is the 'no trade' clause that needs to be waived, his drug suspension previously and a BIG contract .
The positive on him is .300 hitter with .900+ OPS .. 26 years old so entering prime years now .. contract runs thru 2035 so locked up for 10 more years.
Currently making $20M per year ..sounds odd but with salaries always increasing (Soto's deal etc ) , paying $20+ M per year for the next 10 years would actually by quite doable .
A trade for him would be a blockbuster for sure .
Padres new ownership seems to want to reduce some of the big monies . They have Machado making a ton too.
Cards have past history of acquiring name guys ... Edmonds, Holliday , Goldy , Arenado
Bloom would have quite the young trio to build the team around ... VS II, Masyn Winn, and Tatis Jr. quite a core nucleus for Bloom to add complimentary youngsters around him .
Heard Bloom is type to make a splash. Would he deal for a Tatis Jr . ? (If Tatis would be open to coming to St. Louis Of course, the Cubs, Yankee types would be all over him too .
PS Acquring a player of his 'star' status would put butts in the seats and ownership sure wants more attendance. So part of his mega deal is offset by increased attendance having a bonafide star caliber player.
After this season, in the off season they add a stud. Part of the plan. Add the star to a young core with a year under their belts. Could be third baseman could be league Ace could be corner outfielder. But a star is coming.
We both seem to be on the same page. Bloom makes splash for a marquee player. Right or wrong , he bore the brunt of the Mookie Betts trade in Boston. After Betts turned down their offer, reportedly ownership told Bloom to trade Betts . Of course the GM is the point man just like Mo takes any incoming crticisms for Cards ownership decisions. I know Bloom has a lot of respect in league circles for building the current Red Sox farm system.
Certainly acquiring a bonafide star player would create a ton of buzz not only in St. Louis but around the MLB. Would put the Betts trade in the rearview mirror so to speak .
ramfandan wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:30 am
Here and there hearing that Chaim Bloom may make a splash in acquiring a 'star' type player ...Fernando Tatis, Jr. mentioned
Tatis father played for the Cardinals . The negatives to overcome is the 'no trade' clause that needs to be waived, his drug suspension previously and a BIG contract .
The positive on him is .300 hitter with .900+ OPS .. 26 years old so entering prime years now .. contract runs thru 2035 so locked up for 10 more years.
Currently making $20M per year ..sounds odd but with salaries always increasing (Soto's deal etc ) , paying $20+ M per year for the next 10 years would actually by quite doable .
A trade for him would be a blockbuster for sure .
Padres new ownership seems to want to reduce some of the big monies . They have Machado making a ton too.
Cards have past history of acquiring name guys ... Edmonds, Holliday , Goldy , Arenado
Bloom would have quite the young trio to build the team around ... VS II, Masyn Winn, and Tatis Jr. quite a core nucleus for Bloom to add complimentary youngsters around him .
Heard Bloom is type to make a splash. Would he deal for a Tatis Jr . ? (If Tatis would be open to coming to St. Louis Of course, the Cubs, Yankee types would be all over him too .
PS Acquring a player of his 'star' status would put butts in the seats and ownership sure wants more attendance. So part of his mega deal is offset by increased attendance having a bonafide star caliber player.
After this season, in the off season they add a stud. Part of the plan. Add the star to a young core with a year under their belts. Could be third baseman could be league Ace could be corner outfielder. But a star is coming.
We both seem to be on the same page. Bloom makes splash for a marquee player. Right or wrong , he bore the brunt of the Mookie Betts trade in Boston. After Betts turned down their offer, reportedly ownership told Bloom to trade Betts . Of course the GM is the point man just like Mo takes any incoming crticisms for Cards ownership decisions. I know Bloom has a lot of respect in league circles for building the current Red Sox farm system.
Certainly acquiring a bonafide star player would create a ton of buzz not only in St. Louis but around the MLB. Would put the Betts trade in the rearview mirror so to speak .
You mention buzz around the league. I think right now 25 teams think we are something, meaning they have noticed us. Now add a star in off season. Not sure he deadline.
The hardest part of our deadline is to stay the course. In the winter you couldn’t give Matz or Mik away and everyone tried. Now they are cooking and we can’t or don’t trade them. Stay the course. Trim the fat.
kyace wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:40 am
Ok, so the consensus is no based upon how they are currently performing. Hopefully Matz stays healthy and either helps the Cards reach the playoffs or gets traded and brings back a decent prospect. I was basing this on the Sonny Gray time in New York where he too struggled and endured the wrath of that fan base and media. I was posting on this site at the time hoping the Cards would trade for him then. If the Cards had dealt for him in March 2019 things most likely would have turned out different with him on the pitching staff for the years that followed.
I think the Yankees will give Williams a chance to turn things around despite what the fan base wants and he has pitched better his last few outings. I follow the Yankees and their fan base are brutal regarding their opinions on Williams and the media not much better. I know he was heavily booed after some of his outings. Sometimes that gets to a player who was used to pitching in a smaller market.However the Yankees are not going to just give him away and would want something decent back for him.
You may be right it may be New York he seems to fold under any pressure and is fragile mentally. He is brutal in the post season giving up 6 runs in 2 1/3 innings so he is a choke artist. Cards dont need a guy like that
