cards are one serious MOTO bat away from having a pretty good offense

[3dender]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

[mytake]

Great for wish but where do you find '35 HR type guys '? And the very few that have that ability rarely reach free agency . Alonso was that type and he hit the market .. bit older though and due to his age nobody wanted to give him long term dollars even for the HR's he may hit.

Probably via trade:
McGwire
Edmonds
Rolen
Holliday
Goldy
Nado

I guess Berkman and Beltran were FAs but shows that even a 35 yo can contribute quite a bit if they are in good shape.

That's great, now show me what corner OF is available like those players. I'll wait.

Teoscar Hernandez. He isn't a Juan Soto, but he was available.

[ramfandan]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

Does Dave Roberts lack spine for not moving His top HR threat Ohtani to cleanup after Freeman. Yeah Ohtani is fast and can swipe bases but if the HR power at cleanup supersedes all else, wouldn’t Roberts bat Ohtani 4th ?
So what you are missing is that Roberts knows over course of 162 games that Ohtani gets about 45 more plate appearances by NOT batting cleanup. That’s why his 50 HR guy bats. first.

The MOTO concept is a bit outdated.

[3dender]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

Does Dave Roberts lack spine for not moving His top HR threat Ohtani to cleanup after Freeman. Yeah Ohtani is fast and can swipe bases but if the HR power at cleanup supersedes all else, wouldn’t Roberts bat Ohtani 4th ?
So what you are missing is that Roberts knows over course of 163 games that Ohtani gets about 45 more plate appearances by NOT batting cleanup. That’s why his 50 HR guy bats. first.

You've really missed my point. Batting Contreras/Herrera 5th/6th is nowhere near the same as batting Ohtani leadoff.

[JDW]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

You're not missing anything, and are right to say this is already a pretty good offense.
Balance works, and basically the only current holes in the offense is in trying to give runway to both Walker and Gorman.
It's possible they could plug that hole by bringing up Sagesse, or later on this season possibly Wetherholt.
Now, is that what they should do at this point? Well, with each W the question becomes more muddled in my mind. IDK, but find it hard to compromise a lineup with a team that looks like it could contend for the division.
The notion this lineup needs to add a 35 HR MOTO isn't necessarily true. A balanced lineup that plays good defense and has good pitching works.

[ggnoobs]

I believe they are one TOR starter & one lockdown reliever from being a serious contender. You are much better off having talent up & down the lineup than depending on one guy who can be pitched around or get hurt. The offense is "good enough". If Walker or Gorman or both could get their stuff together, they would be very deep.

This team has a lot of intrigue & is starting to look like a "destiny" type team.

I was thinking the other day this team needs a TOR starter and one more lock down reliever, one 35 Homer bat and a .850 ops Nolan Arenado. That would make them a very solid team.

Impossible? Maybe.

I imagine they want to hold on to any and all prospects as they're trying to rebuild.

[ramfandan]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

Does Dave Roberts lack spine for not moving His top HR threat Ohtani to cleanup after Freeman. Yeah Ohtani is fast and can swipe bases but if the HR power at cleanup supersedes all else, wouldn’t Roberts bat Ohtani 4th ?
So what you are missing is that Roberts knows over course of 163 games that Ohtani gets about 45 more plate appearances by NOT batting cleanup. That’s why his 50 HR guy bats. first.

You've really missed my point. Batting Contreras/Herrera 5th/6th is nowhere near the same as batting Ohtani leadoff.

I am all for moving Nado down in the lineup because Contreras /Herrera get more plate appearances batting higher .
Personally based on his stats , I would slot Arenado 6th and even 7th when Burley is in lineup.
With current guys what is your recommended lineup ?

[3dender]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

You're not missing anything, and are right to say this is already a pretty good offense.
Balance works, and basically the only current holes in the offense is in trying to give runway to both Walker and Gorman.
It's possible they could plug that hole by bringing up Sagesse, or later on this season possibly Wetherholt.
Now, is that what they should do at this point? Well, with each W the question becomes more muddled in my mind. IDK, but find it hard to compromise a lineup with a team that looks like it could contend for the division.
The notion this lineup needs to add a 35 HR MOTO isn't necessarily true. A balanced lineup that plays good defense and has good pitching works.

Also, when is the last time the Cards have only had only 1 black hole in the lineup? I feel like you have to go back to MV3 years to find such a lineup.

People thinking this lineup needs to improve really seem to be missing out on enjoying nice things.

[3dender]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

Does Dave Roberts lack spine for not moving His top HR threat Ohtani to cleanup after Freeman. Yeah Ohtani is fast and can swipe bases but if the HR power at cleanup supersedes all else, wouldn’t Roberts bat Ohtani 4th ?
So what you are missing is that Roberts knows over course of 163 games that Ohtani gets about 45 more plate appearances by NOT batting cleanup. That’s why his 50 HR guy bats. first.

You've really missed my point. Batting Contreras/Herrera 5th/6th is nowhere near the same as batting Ohtani leadoff.

I am all for moving Nado down in the lineup because Contreras /Herrera get more plate appearances batting higher .
Personally based on his stats , I would slot Arenado 6th and even 7th when Burley is in lineup.
With current guys what is your recommended lineup ?

It's pretty good right now, except for Arenado. Just move Contreras up to 4th and Herrera to 5th. Arenado 6th against LHP and 7th against RHP.

[JDW]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

You're not missing anything, and are right to say this is already a pretty good offense.
Balance works, and basically the only current holes in the offense is in trying to give runway to both Walker and Gorman.
It's possible they could plug that hole by bringing up Sagesse, or later on this season possibly Wetherholt.
Now, is that what they should do at this point? Well, with each W the question becomes more muddled in my mind. IDK, but find it hard to compromise a lineup with a team that looks like it could contend for the division.
The notion this lineup needs to add a 35 HR MOTO isn't necessarily true. A balanced lineup that plays good defense and has good pitching works.

Also, when is the last time the Cards have only had only 1 black hole in the lineup? I feel like you have to go back to MV3 years to find such a lineup.

People thinking this lineup needs to improve really seem to be missing out on enjoying nice things.

And currently have a possible solution to patch the hole in the lineup available w/o the need for a pipe dream trade.

Yep, enjoy the good moments in real time when they are happening.

I think the fans thinking we need more slug are enjoying the moments, but just want more of them, thus the desire for Schwarber hitting cleanup.

Good luck with that.

[ICCFIM2]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

You're not missing anything, and are right to say this is already a pretty good offense.
Balance works, and basically the only current holes in the offense is in trying to give runway to both Walker and Gorman.
It's possible they could plug that hole by bringing up Sagesse, or later on this season possibly Wetherholt.
Now, is that what they should do at this point? Well, with each W the question becomes more muddled in my mind. IDK, but find it hard to compromise a lineup with a team that looks like it could contend for the division.
The notion this lineup needs to add a 35 HR MOTO isn't necessarily true. A balanced lineup that plays good defense and has good pitching works.

The chances of them bringing up Wetherholt this year is 0%. His OPS in Springfield is 800, which is nice. But we have seen guys with 900OPS+ in the minor leagues fail badly at the ML level. Let him get at least a half season at Memphis before we think he might be ready. They have other guys, Sagesse as you mentioned, Burleson etc. to plug the Walker hole.

Lets see where the team is June 30. Tough schedule between now and then. If they are still in contention on June 30 and Walker and Gorman are still struggling, I expect they will make some changes. Walker will likely get sent down. Gorman I am not sure what they can do with. He is probably a change of scenery guy. I suspect at least a couple of teams rebuilding might think they can fix him. They probably would cough up a ML reliever in a trade. If the team is contending, while that is a sad end to the Gorman era, it might be what happens.

[ramfandan]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

Does Dave Roberts lack spine for not moving His top HR threat Ohtani to cleanup after Freeman. Yeah Ohtani is fast and can swipe bases but if the HR power at cleanup supersedes all else, wouldn’t Roberts bat Ohtani 4th ?
So what you are missing is that Roberts knows over course of 163 games that Ohtani gets about 45 more plate appearances by NOT batting cleanup. That’s why his 50 HR guy bats. first.

You've really missed my point. Batting Contreras/Herrera 5th/6th is nowhere near the same as batting Ohtani leadoff.

I am all for moving Nado down in the lineup because Contreras /Herrera get more plate appearances batting higher .
Personally based on his stats , I would slot Arenado 6th and even 7th when Burley is in lineup.
With current guys what is your recommended lineup ?

It's pretty good right now, except for Arenado. Just move Contreras up to 4th and Herrera to 5th. Arenado 6th against LHP and 7th against RHP.

We agree. Another consideration we should think about,
Might there be advantages to batting Herrera 4th wit Contreras giving him protection at 5th.
Would Herrera get even better pitches by teams knowing Willy C is up next. Something that popped in my mind. your thoughts ?

[12xu]

In 2022 Goldy and Arenado were those "serious MOTO bats", and now that Goldy is gone and Arenado's power is diminished, the Cards do need a proven slugger in the middle of the batting order. IMO this player does not have to be a 30/35 HR hitter, 25 would be sufficient, with 35 doubles. Most important would be a consistent ability to drive in runs at or near 100 per year.

The Cardinals have been waiting for Gorman and/or Walker to be this MOTO guy, but this is beginning to seem like a pipe dream. Herrera looks very promising, but we only have 371 PA from him so far. JJ Wetherholt is on the horizon, but still likely a year away.

The Cardinal front office will probably stay away from signing any MOTO FA anytime soon, they seem determined to build from within. My approach would be to trade current players about to become FA and Arenado for a young slugger who is on the verge of being the type of slugger the Cardinals need. Someone like Coby Mayo of Baltimore. The Orioles are struggling and need pitching desperately. I realize he has yet to show his power in very short time in the show, but trading for a more seasoned vet would be harder to achieve.

[JDW]

This team already has a dangerous offense. They just scored 14 runs (9 on Nola). They recently put up 4 on Gore, and a few weeks back 7 on Framber Valdez. They've beat Skenes twice, Sanchez, Wheeler. The first series they put up 4 on Pablo Lopez and 8 on Bailey Ober. They're also beating up on bad pitchers like they should, unlike most any other year I can remember.

They're 4th in runs in the NL and 7th in the whole league. They also have 2 potential 30 hr hitters they could slot into the cleanup spot tomorrow, if only the manager had the spine to move Arenado.

What am I missing here?

You're not missing anything, and are right to say this is already a pretty good offense.
Balance works, and basically the only current holes in the offense is in trying to give runway to both Walker and Gorman.
It's possible they could plug that hole by bringing up Sagesse, or later on this season possibly Wetherholt.
Now, is that what they should do at this point? Well, with each W the question becomes more muddled in my mind. IDK, but find it hard to compromise a lineup with a team that looks like it could contend for the division.
The notion this lineup needs to add a 35 HR MOTO isn't necessarily true. A balanced lineup that plays good defense and has good pitching works.

The chances of them bringing up Wetherholt this year is 0%. His OPS in Springfield is 800, which is nice. But we have seen guys with 900OPS+ in the minor leagues fail badly at the ML level. Let him get at least a half season at Memphis before we think he might be ready. They have other guys, Sagesse as you mentioned, Burleson etc. to plug the Walker hole.

Lets see where the team is June 30. Tough schedule between now and then. If they are still in contention on June 30 and Walker and Gorman are still struggling, I expect they will make some changes. Walker will likely get sent down. Gorman I am not sure what they can do with. He is probably a change of scenery guy. I suspect at least a couple of teams rebuilding might think they can fix him. They probably would cough up a ML reliever in a trade. If the team is contending, while that is a sad end to the Gorman era, it might be what happens.

I'd speculate Wetherholt's chance to make a 2025 appearance at the show this year a little better than 0%.
Continuing the runway to June 30th with Walker and Gorman I won't argue with, that seems fair.
The way Oli is currently rationing their playing time is good. Just enough consistent opportunity for both without crippling the teams chances for W's.

[Whatashame]

I was watching the game tonight with my son who stopped by. Looking at the Phillies lineup I mentioned to him that what the Cardinals need is a guy like Castellanos. Yeah a Harper would be great. A Guerrero Jr would be great. A Judge would be great but they don’t always come around. An offensive player like Castellanos to play some outfield AND give us quality ABs would fit nicely in the middle of that order.

You can always use a superstar but a guy like Castellanos to give us depth in our order would do wonders.

NC isn’t that good. Especially with Philly.

Offense wise, he’s just slightly better than Arenado.

You’re missing my point. The point is that although having a Harper, a Judge, a Trout would be great, it’s not necessary. The Cardinals have had success with acquiring guys later in their careers who were still productive players and would lengthen this lineup. Guys like Berkman, Walker, Clark to name a few.

It doesn’t have to be a Castellanos but a Castellanos type of player. Someone who still gets the bat to the ball and can be a threat. The only real holes in this lineup are Walker and Gorman. They are getting a lot of play right now, hoping something clicks with them. If Walker or Gorman actually find their way, this lineup could be explosive.

I agree with dropping Arenado down a couple of spots. It appears that his most productive days are behind him. Another Pujols would be great but more realistically so would another Berkman or Walker.

[ecleme22]

I was watching the game tonight with my son who stopped by. Looking at the Phillies lineup I mentioned to him that what the Cardinals need is a guy like Castellanos. Yeah a Harper would be great. A Guerrero Jr would be great. A Judge would be great but they don’t always come around. An offensive player like Castellanos to play some outfield AND give us quality ABs would fit nicely in the middle of that order.

You can always use a superstar but a guy like Castellanos to give us depth in our order would do wonders.

NC isn’t that good. Especially with Philly.

Offense wise, he’s just slightly better than Arenado.

You’re missing my point. The point is that although having a Harper, a Judge, a Trout would be great, it’s not necessary. The Cardinals have had success with acquiring guys later in their careers who were still productive players and would lengthen this lineup. Guys like Berkman, Walker, Clark to name a few.

It doesn’t have to be a Castellanos but a Castellanos type of player. Someone who still gets the bat to the ball and can be a threat. The only real holes in this lineup are Walker and Gorman. They are getting a lot of play right now, hoping something clicks with them. If Walker or Gorman actually find their way, this lineup could be explosive.

I agree with dropping Arenado down a couple of spots. It appears that his most productive days are behind him. Another Pujols would be great but more realistically so would another Berkman or Walker.

My point is NC isn't that good.

Please don't construe this with thinking I'm comparing NC with the Harpers of the world.

Don't be intoxicated by NC's 5 for 12 performance against STL.

Also, I'm down for a really good hitter in their twilight like a Berkman, Walker, Beltran, etc. NC isn't that player...