Rose and shoeless Joe hof eligible

[acco40]

I mean, it is the national baseball hall of fame, isn't it? Not the Hall of the morally superior. I think Pete Rose was an abhorrent human being, but also a hall of fame player, as most would agree by statistics alone.

Why do you feel Rose was abhorrent? Certainly not because of betting, I hope.

[Monsieur De Treville]

Ok with shoeless Joe. Not the pedo

Is Cicotte eligible as well? I think he would have some support....any others?

[Monsieur De Treville]

I mean, it is the national baseball hall of fame, isn't it? Not the Hall of the morally superior. I think Pete Rose was an abhorrent human being, but also a hall of fame player, as most would agree by statistics alone.

Why do you feel Rose was abhorrent? Certainly not because of betting, I hope.

I don't know....lying for years about the betting? Tax evasion? Underage girls?

Great player, fun to watch between the lines...but...pretty despicable guy off the field. He bet on baseball because he thought he was bigger than the game or the rules. He was wrong.

[OldRed]

So dumb. Rose deserved a speech
[/quote.

Yes, long over due.

[Quincy Varnish]

Ok with shoeless Joe. Not the pedo

Is Cicotte eligible as well? I think he would have some support....any others?

The others didn’t have HoF-caliber careers. A sportswriter on MLB Network mentioned Cicotte would get some consideration.

[brock118]

I mean, it is the national baseball hall of fame, isn't it? Not the Hall of the morally superior. I think Pete Rose was an abhorrent human being, but also a hall of fame player, as most would agree by statistics alone.

Why do you feel Rose was abhorrent? Certainly not because of betting, I hope.

Being a pedophile screwing young teens and paying for them to fly to places he was playing would be up there. Maybe that's just me.

[Absolut]

I mean, it is the national baseball hall of fame, isn't it? Not the Hall of the morally superior. I think Pete Rose was an abhorrent human being, but also a hall of fame player, as most would agree by statistics alone.

Why do you feel Rose was abhorrent? Certainly not because of betting, I hope.

Being a pedophile screwing young teens and paying for them to fly to places he was playing would be up there. Maybe that's just me.

Winner. But he thought they were 16, that was his excuse. She had to get rides to meet him. He’s disgusting.

[icon]

His nickname should've been changed to Charlie Hustler.

[sp25]

His nickname should've been changed to Charlie Hustler.

I was never a fan. I called him Charlie Hot Dog.

[Rosthol]

Is there integrity in baseball anymore?

Considering the Fan Duel Sports Network broadcasts Cardinal games and the way the Cardinals supported the gambling law in Missouri last November I would say not.

How about how they handled the Ohtani situation? Do you really believe that Ohtani was innocent?

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

I have maintained for some time that while he was alive, he had no place in the HOF. Now that he is dead the "lifetime" suspension would seem to be over. Just my opinion, for how little it is worth.

You make a good point.

[The Nard]

Ok with shoeless Joe. Not the pedo

Is Cicotte eligible as well? I think he would have some support....any others?

Ed Cicotte threw 2games while he was pitching. His first pitch was a signal to the gamblers that the fix was on

Joe Jackson only “knew” about the fix, but played his (bleep) off during that series. Check the stats.

[ramfandan]

I have maintained for some time that while he was alive, he had no place in the HOF. Now that he is dead the "lifetime" suspension would seem to be over. Just my opinion, for how little it is worth.

You make a good point.

The word 'lifetime' is never part of the penalty of Rule 21 .. it states that violation of the rule results in 'permanent ' ban so dont know why the term 'lifetime' is brought up . I think we know though. It's used as part of the rationale to lift the 'permanent' ban. Just my opinion too, for what it's worth. I am not an attorney to argue the differentiation of the terms.

[12xu]

Ok with shoeless Joe. Not the pedo

Is Cicotte eligible as well? I think he would have some support....any others?

Ed Cicotte threw 2games while he was pitching. His first pitch was a signal to the gamblers that the fix was on

Joe Jackson only “knew” about the fix, but played his (bleep) off during that series. Check the stats.

None of that matters now. The ban is lifted, and all eight Black Sox players who were ineligible could be voted into the HOF. Cicotte won 209 games with a 2.38 ERA in his 14 seasons. Other than Shoeless Joe, he is the only one with the stats to be considered.

St. Louis connection to the Black Sox scandal: Joe Gedeon, second baseman for the St. Louis Browns. A friend of "Swede" Risberg, Gedeon learned about the fix from Risberg and placed bets on Cincinnati. He informed Comiskey of the fix after the Series to gain a reward. Instead, Landis banned him for life along with the eight White Sox

Published just before the '19 series:
Philadelphia Bulletin - October 2, 1919

Still, it really doesn't matter,
After all, who wins the flag.
Good clean sport is what we're after,
And we aim to make our brag
To each near or distant nation
Whereon shines the sporting sun
That of all our games gymnastic
Base ball is the cleanest one!

[Bob39]

Regarding Cicotte, his baseball reference page is interesting. 59 career WAR and 209 wins. Most of his stats seem just short of the HoF, but Hall of Fame Monitor has him at 111 where the average Hall of Famer is at 100. If you look at his similarity scores, the most similar guys (Stanley Coveleski, Chief Bender, Jack Chesboro) are all in the Hall of Fame. Dick Allen, Three Finger Brown, Rube Wadell, Willie Stargell, and George Sisler are among the Hall of Famers with a lower career WAR than Cicotte.

[smilinjoefission]

Sportswriters won't allow MLB to keep Baroids out of the Hall, they basically licked his jock his entire career. This allows them to get their mancrush into the Hall, and it will be before he dies, it will be probably 2028 when he's voted in...kinda like the RnR HOF you need to have Yes and Rush in even if the Hall doesn't want them in order for them to justify Eminem and Jay-Z ( Baroids is Eminem and Jay-Z).