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JohnnyMO wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:29 pm Genuine question because I don’t know off hand, but how many players spent years in the minors as 18-20hr .280 hitters with an OPS around .800 and then suddenly became 30+ HR 1000 OPS players?

I’m excited about Herrera, but I feel like people are anointing him way too soon.

i really suck at finding that info but i know alot of young hitters take a while to grow into their swings and bodies and also to get an understanding of how big league pitchers attack them. I bet there are many more than you think.

Curious why so many want him out from behind the plate.

Is it the toll of being a catcher the #1 issue and /or are there other concerns?

He had a great block last night.

Guessing his arm is not in the upper tier?

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:29 pm Genuine question because I don’t know off hand, but how many players spent years in the minors as 18-20hr .280 hitters with an OPS around .800 and then suddenly became 30+ HR 1000 OPS players?

I’m excited about Herrera, but I feel like people are anointing him way too soon.

I don't know that anyone is anointing him a 30 HR 1.000 OPS player, but he has a career .828 OPS in the minors and appears to have unlocked something since being called up last year, so I don't see why it would be unusual for him to be doing what he is doing right now.

dhsux wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:40 pm Curious why so many want him out from behind the plate.

Is it the toll of being a catcher the #1 issue and /or are there other concerns?

He had a great block last night.

Guessing his arm is not in the upper tier?

if he's truly only a 15-20 hr guy or less -- he should absolutely work on his throwing and defense as a catcher. But if he becomes an elite hitter with said 30+ hr power isn't he more valuable in the lineup everyday and not taking the beating the tools of ignorance give to catchers? And yes his arm is the biggest issue currently.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:29 pm Genuine question because I don’t know off hand, but how many players spent years in the minors as 18-20hr .280 hitters with an OPS around .800 and then suddenly became 30+ HR 1000 OPS players?

I’m excited about Herrera, but I feel like people are anointing him way too soon.

J. Bagwell

Never showed that kind of power in the minors or his first couple years in MLB, then exploded at age 26.

Of course he had some help from those Flintstone "vitamins" he was taking.

And for the record, I don't know if Hererra will ever top 30+ HR's but sure hope he does.

dhsux wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:40 pm Curious why so many want him out from behind the plate.

Is it the toll of being a catcher the #1 issue and /or are there other concerns?

He had a great block last night.

Guessing his arm is not in the upper tier?

He can't throw!

Plays in the NLC where there are three (Cubs, Brewers and Reds) teams that are a top MLB in steals and they'd run him out of the stadium.

DH is his spot this season.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:48 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:29 pm Genuine question because I don’t know off hand, but how many players spent years in the minors as 18-20hr .280 hitters with an OPS around .800 and then suddenly became 30+ HR 1000 OPS players?

I’m excited about Herrera, but I feel like people are anointing him way too soon.

J. Bagwell

Never showed that kind of power in the minors or his first couple years in MLB, then exploded at age 26.

Of course he had some help from those Flintstone "vitamins" he was taking.

And for the record, I don't know if Hererra will ever top 30+ HR's but sure hope he does.

Big Papi i think was another one --- didn't the twins all but release him at one point? He was likely on the vitamins also -

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:29 pm Genuine question because I don’t know off hand, but how many players spent years in the minors as 18-20hr .280 hitters with an OPS around .800 and then suddenly became 30+ HR 1000 OPS players?

I’m excited about Herrera, but I feel like people are anointing him way too soon.

He’s always had power to be unlocked. I remember reading a scouting report in 2024 I think it was that said he had a groundball rate of high 40s to low 50s % which is more than you want to see from a slow footed catcher but said if he learns to elevate he could be a 25-30 Homerun guy which I don’t know what his rate is now but maybe he is elevating it more than he did. In the minors . Now I don’t think he is 1.000 OPS guy and I don’t think many think he is but the bat is real he can hit .280 to .300 with 20-25 HR and 100 RBI I think

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:29 pm Genuine question because I don’t know off hand, but how many players spent years in the minors as 18-20hr .280 hitters with an OPS around .800 and then suddenly became 30+ HR 1000 OPS players?

I’m excited about Herrera, but I feel like people are anointing him way too soon.

Three I know of were pretty good players for the Cardinals.

Matt Holliday’s highest OPS for significant amount of time in the minors was .833. He had a career .784 OPS in the minor leagues. He had a 1.012 OPS in his 4th MLB season and a career .889 OPS in the MLB.

Jim Edmonds is another one. He had a career .816 OPS in the minors, with a high of .872. His career MLB OPS was .903.

Arenado also had a career .818 OPS in the minors with a high of .858 for a full season (he did have a 1.059 OPS in 75 PA in AAA before being called up). Career .855 OPS in the MLB with a high of .963.

And a lot of great players didn’t hit a ton of HRs in the minors.

Judge had 3 seasons with at least 410 PA in the minors and had a career high of 20 HRs in the minors.
Arenado had 1 season with at least 15 HRs in the minors, a 20 HR season in A+ ball.
Holliday’s minor league high was 16 in A ball.
Edmonds had 1 season with double digit HRs in the minors, a 14 HR season in AA/AAA at 22.

I'd move him off catcher right now. Could he become a better catcher? Maybe. But he's an outstanding bat NOW. Pozo and Pages aren't the most fearsome catching duo, but they call a good game and won't embarrass you with the bat. Besides, we've got Crooks and Bernal who'll be here sooner than later.

Is this not in the spirit of "Let's see what we have?" We have Herrera, who's a below average catcher, Pages, who calls a good game, seems to be a good egg in the clubhouse, and won't light up the back of a baseball card, but seems to have a knack for getting his hitting in at the best possible time. Pozo's been a good surprise, too.

And I'd also agree with getting Herrera some face time in the outfield in blowouts or the occasional getaway game. Left field's probably the best bet for him. His arm would probably be fine there, if not world beating. Certainly never hindered Matt Holliday. And with rangy guys like Nootbaar/Walker/Scott covering the other 2/3rds of the outfield, he could be hidden there until he gets more reps.

The bottom line, though, is that his bat has GOT to be in the line-up. It was looking that way at the end of last year, and he's done nothing since to change my perception of that.

Hachi wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:47 am Honestly followed him for a while always been a fan. Question is what does he become and what do the cardinals do with him as far a position wise?

What I mean by become is what is the ceiling because he is an outstanding hitter

This user is a little Shady....

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 13:25 pm I'm not ready to give up on him catching ever again. if the Cards do then they probably know best. But it would be massively beneficial if he can also catch 50 games a year.

I am...he doesn't have a catcher's arm and we have Crooks & Bernal coming on fast.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:29 pm Genuine question because I don’t know off hand, but how many players spent years in the minors as 18-20hr .280 hitters with an OPS around .800 and then suddenly became 30+ HR 1000 OPS players?

I’m excited about Herrera, but I feel like people are anointing him way too soon.

Matt Carpenter?
Ray Lankford?
Jim Edmonds?

Many young hitters grow into their power. The Hammer hit less than 30 HR his first three seasons in mlb then exploded with 44 HR his 4th season. The Man hit less than 20 HR his first 5 seasons then hit 39 in his 6th season.

In other words...it happens.

dhsux wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:40 pm Curious why so many want him out from behind the plate.

Is it the toll of being a catcher the #1 issue and /or are there other concerns?

He had a great block last night.

Guessing his arm is not in the upper tier?

1- Want his bat in the lineup everyday.
2. Higher injury risk at catcher. Want his bat in the lineup everyday.
3. Excellent organizational depth at catcher means he isn't stuck behind the plate.

These 3 things are enough to move him from behind the plate without even getting into any deficiencies he might have.

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑13 May 2025 15:34 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 13:25 pm I'm not ready to give up on him catching ever again. if the Cards do then they probably know best. But it would be massively beneficial if he can also catch 50 games a year.

I am...he doesn't have a catcher's arm and we have Crooks & Bernal coming on fast.

For as good of a arm as Crooks has (graded out as a 60 on MLB’s scouting report, or better than Bernal/Herrera and equal to Pages), he’s only thrown out 14% of would be basestealers in AAA, which is in line or even slightly worse than Herrera was in AAA. Pitchers must be doing a bad job of holding them.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 May 2025 15:43 pm

dhsux wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:40 pm Curious why so many want him out from behind the plate.

Is it the toll of being a catcher the #1 issue and /or are there other concerns?

He had a great block last night.

Guessing his arm is not in the upper tier?

1- Want his bat in the lineup everyday.
2. Higher injury risk at catcher. Want his bat in the lineup everyday.
3. Excellent organizational depth at catcher means he isn't stuck behind the plate.

These 3 things are enough to move him from behind the plate without even getting into any deficiencies he might have.

+1