I'd consider trading off desirable players.

[rockondlouie]

I build around Noot/Donny giving both extensions that buys out their remaining ARB year plus a couple free agent seasons.

[renostl]

Noots, Donovan's, really anyone who's clock has started and has years on them.

ST. LOUIS, MO., July 30, 2023 – The St. Louis Cardinals announced this afternoon that they have acquired minor league right-handed pitcher Tekoah Roby, left-handed pitcher John King and infielder Thomas Saggese from the Texas Rangers in exchange for pitchers Jordan Montgomery and Chris Stratton and International Signing Bonus Pool space.

I'd like to see more of these in the not so distant future.

In-turn the vets would be more apt to waive their NTC's.

Clean house give Chaim a blank canvas to work with.

Maybe
Always depends on the return. As you
would agree.

Some sense to this IF BD is a future OFer/UT guy. then move 1 not both, IMO.

As to the NTC's, if the current pace of losing isn't enough motivation to wave their NTC not sure what would. Actually of the NTC's Gray is the one most beneficial is he changed his mind.

We should be willing to trade players with control left if the return warrants it. We should not completely start over. For example: I would not want to trade Nootbaar and Donovan. I am not anxious to trade either one of them, but they (along with Winn) have some of the highest trade values on the team. In another thread (Execute The Plan) i suggested Eury Perez of the Marlins as a good target. Would I trade Nootbaar for him? In a heartbeat. Perez is the true #1 pitcher that we can't draft, develop, or trade for. I like Nootbaar, but I would be willing to let Donovan play LF for a time, or try to move Herrera there, or see about Chase Davis, or try someone we might trade for at the deadline, or sign someone presentable in the offseason, or, or, or... The point is the trade (as an example) answers a question not easliy answered and creates a hole that can probably be dealt with.

Others I would be willing to move are Burleson, Gorman, or one of the catchers. Trading these players isn't just a dump- they have to be for meaningful return that address issues. Most controversially (I'm not even sold on the idea yet), I might be willing to trade Tink Hence to a team that views him as a potential high-end starting pitcher. I like him a lot and think he will be a good major league pitcher- I'm just starting to think his ceiling may be as a closer. He can't stay healthy and isn't building innings in a way that could let him be part of a major league rotation. Still valuable, but not as valuable as a starting pitcher.

I respect the view we may just have different names that we'd deal.
I'd caution that OF has been easy to cover for the Cards and I'd want to keep
players that have shown capable of hitting at the MLB. Donovan Scott and Walker
sound weak to me. Cards or any team expecting too many prospects to produce
at the same time are being unrealistic and not competing. The flaw in rebuilds.

Perez is a great target. Not sure why they'd deal him anytime soon but if they did
I'd be pushing our redundancies and a prospect or 2-3.
Walker, Crooks, Roby or a 2B?

On Baseball Trade Values Nootbaar is practically equal in value to Perez. The package I had suggested that was also nearly equal in value was Burleson, Gorman, Crooks, and Graceffo. Why they might do that is they would get 3 players who could probably start and be everyday players for them.

On the give side the Cards are fine if Miami likes that.
Gorman is the only possible sting if/when NA goes but that's how trades are.
Somebody may outbid that for Perez or Miami may wait for Perez to regain value.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Noots, Donovan's, really anyone who's clock has started and has years on them.

ST. LOUIS, MO., July 30, 2023 – The St. Louis Cardinals announced this afternoon that they have acquired minor league right-handed pitcher Tekoah Roby, left-handed pitcher John King and infielder Thomas Saggese from the Texas Rangers in exchange for pitchers Jordan Montgomery and Chris Stratton and International Signing Bonus Pool space.

I'd like to see more of these in the not so distant future.

In-turn the vets would be more apt to waive their NTC's.

Clean house give Chaim a blank canvas to work with.

Maybe
Always depends on the return. As you
would agree.

Some sense to this IF BD is a future OFer/UT guy. then move 1 not both, IMO.

As to the NTC's, if the current pace of losing isn't enough motivation to wave their NTC not sure what would. Actually of the NTC's Gray is the one most beneficial is he changed his mind.

We should be willing to trade players with control left if the return warrants it. We should not completely start over. For example: I would not want to trade Nootbaar and Donovan. I am not anxious to trade either one of them, but they (along with Winn) have some of the highest trade values on the team. In another thread (Execute The Plan) i suggested Eury Perez of the Marlins as a good target. Would I trade Nootbaar for him? In a heartbeat. Perez is the true #1 pitcher that we can't draft, develop, or trade for. I like Nootbaar, but I would be willing to let Donovan play LF for a time, or try to move Herrera there, or see about Chase Davis, or try someone we might trade for at the deadline, or sign someone presentable in the offseason, or, or, or... The point is the trade (as an example) answers a question not easliy answered and creates a hole that can probably be dealt with.

Others I would be willing to move are Burleson, Gorman, or one of the catchers. Trading these players isn't just a dump- they have to be for meaningful return that address issues. Most controversially (I'm not even sold on the idea yet), I might be willing to trade Tink Hence to a team that views him as a potential high-end starting pitcher. I like him a lot and think he will be a good major league pitcher- I'm just starting to think his ceiling may be as a closer. He can't stay healthy and isn't building innings in a way that could let him be part of a major league rotation. Still valuable, but not as valuable as a starting pitcher.

I respect the view we may just have different names that we'd deal.
I'd caution that OF has been easy to cover for the Cards and I'd want to keep
players that have shown capable of hitting at the MLB. Donovan Scott and Walker
sound weak to me. Cards or any team expecting too many prospects to produce
at the same time are being unrealistic and not competing. The flaw in rebuilds.

Perez is a great target. Not sure why they'd deal him anytime soon but if they did
I'd be pushing our redundancies and a prospect or 2-3.
Walker, Crooks, Roby or a 2B?

On Baseball Trade Values Nootbaar is practically equal in value to Perez. The package I had suggested that was also nearly equal in value was Burleson, Gorman, Crooks, and Graceffo. Why they might do that is they would get 3 players who could probably start and be everyday players for them.

On the give side the Cards are fine if Miami likes that.
Gorman is the only possible sting if/when NA goes but that's how trades are.
Somebody may outbid that for Perez or Miami may wait for Perez to regain value.

I'm not hung up on this particular trade. While it would be a good one, there are a multitude of reasons why it probably won't happen. i'm talking about a framework. The framework is- yes, I would trade young players, and aim for bigger targets. Be the team trading 2-3-4 lesser players and getting one more valuable player in return, not the other way around.

[renostl]

Noots, Donovan's, really anyone who's clock has started and has years on them.

ST. LOUIS, MO., July 30, 2023 – The St. Louis Cardinals announced this afternoon that they have acquired minor league right-handed pitcher Tekoah Roby, left-handed pitcher John King and infielder Thomas Saggese from the Texas Rangers in exchange for pitchers Jordan Montgomery and Chris Stratton and International Signing Bonus Pool space.

I'd like to see more of these in the not so distant future.

In-turn the vets would be more apt to waive their NTC's.

Clean house give Chaim a blank canvas to work with.

Maybe
Always depends on the return. As you
would agree.

Some sense to this IF BD is a future OFer/UT guy. then move 1 not both, IMO.

As to the NTC's, if the current pace of losing isn't enough motivation to wave their NTC not sure what would. Actually of the NTC's Gray is the one most beneficial is he changed his mind.

We should be willing to trade players with control left if the return warrants it. We should not completely start over. For example: I would not want to trade Nootbaar and Donovan. I am not anxious to trade either one of them, but they (along with Winn) have some of the highest trade values on the team. In another thread (Execute The Plan) i suggested Eury Perez of the Marlins as a good target. Would I trade Nootbaar for him? In a heartbeat. Perez is the true #1 pitcher that we can't draft, develop, or trade for. I like Nootbaar, but I would be willing to let Donovan play LF for a time, or try to move Herrera there, or see about Chase Davis, or try someone we might trade for at the deadline, or sign someone presentable in the offseason, or, or, or... The point is the trade (as an example) answers a question not easliy answered and creates a hole that can probably be dealt with.

Others I would be willing to move are Burleson, Gorman, or one of the catchers. Trading these players isn't just a dump- they have to be for meaningful return that address issues. Most controversially (I'm not even sold on the idea yet), I might be willing to trade Tink Hence to a team that views him as a potential high-end starting pitcher. I like him a lot and think he will be a good major league pitcher- I'm just starting to think his ceiling may be as a closer. He can't stay healthy and isn't building innings in a way that could let him be part of a major league rotation. Still valuable, but not as valuable as a starting pitcher.

I respect the view we may just have different names that we'd deal.
I'd caution that OF has been easy to cover for the Cards and I'd want to keep
players that have shown capable of hitting at the MLB. Donovan Scott and Walker
sound weak to me. Cards or any team expecting too many prospects to produce
at the same time are being unrealistic and not competing. The flaw in rebuilds.

Perez is a great target. Not sure why they'd deal him anytime soon but if they did
I'd be pushing our redundancies and a prospect or 2-3.
Walker, Crooks, Roby or a 2B?

On Baseball Trade Values Nootbaar is practically equal in value to Perez. The package I had suggested that was also nearly equal in value was Burleson, Gorman, Crooks, and Graceffo. Why they might do that is they would get 3 players who could probably start and be everyday players for them.

On the give side the Cards are fine if Miami likes that.
Gorman is the only possible sting if/when NA goes but that's how trades are.
Somebody may outbid that for Perez or Miami may wait for Perez to regain value.

I'm not hung up on this particular trade. While it would be a good one, there are a multitude of reasons why it probably won't happen. i'm talking about a framework. The framework is- yes, I would trade young players, and aim for bigger targets. Be the team trading 2-3-4 lesser players and getting one more valuable player in return, not the other way around.

So do you give up the resources in order to get a super stud that you know
you may not re-sign or the resources of say a Goldschmidt type trade?

The point being you don't always need to give a lot in MLB to get
a highly valued player.
In 2025 does it make sense to make a trade for Soto like SD did in 2022, essentially
a season and a half of service?

I don't think this team is that deep. They need to be involved in good old win/win trades
or have a player that is someone else's missing piece. That's our SP's some of which we like.
Then current roster position players, again some of which we like.

IMO the Cards don't need a lot, just need to choose who they want to build with.
Choose a RF bat with production. Choose who's 2b, choose where Herrera is best
Always pitching. Some is here, some will need to be acquired but it is always available
as the late Walt Jocketty once said. WS or bust probably not, but those are rare.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Noots, Donovan's, really anyone who's clock has started and has years on them.

ST. LOUIS, MO., July 30, 2023 – The St. Louis Cardinals announced this afternoon that they have acquired minor league right-handed pitcher Tekoah Roby, left-handed pitcher John King and infielder Thomas Saggese from the Texas Rangers in exchange for pitchers Jordan Montgomery and Chris Stratton and International Signing Bonus Pool space.

I'd like to see more of these in the not so distant future.

In-turn the vets would be more apt to waive their NTC's.

Clean house give Chaim a blank canvas to work with.

Maybe
Always depends on the return. As you
would agree.

Some sense to this IF BD is a future OFer/UT guy. then move 1 not both, IMO.

As to the NTC's, if the current pace of losing isn't enough motivation to wave their NTC not sure what would. Actually of the NTC's Gray is the one most beneficial is he changed his mind.

We should be willing to trade players with control left if the return warrants it. We should not completely start over. For example: I would not want to trade Nootbaar and Donovan. I am not anxious to trade either one of them, but they (along with Winn) have some of the highest trade values on the team. In another thread (Execute The Plan) i suggested Eury Perez of the Marlins as a good target. Would I trade Nootbaar for him? In a heartbeat. Perez is the true #1 pitcher that we can't draft, develop, or trade for. I like Nootbaar, but I would be willing to let Donovan play LF for a time, or try to move Herrera there, or see about Chase Davis, or try someone we might trade for at the deadline, or sign someone presentable in the offseason, or, or, or... The point is the trade (as an example) answers a question not easliy answered and creates a hole that can probably be dealt with.

Others I would be willing to move are Burleson, Gorman, or one of the catchers. Trading these players isn't just a dump- they have to be for meaningful return that address issues. Most controversially (I'm not even sold on the idea yet), I might be willing to trade Tink Hence to a team that views him as a potential high-end starting pitcher. I like him a lot and think he will be a good major league pitcher- I'm just starting to think his ceiling may be as a closer. He can't stay healthy and isn't building innings in a way that could let him be part of a major league rotation. Still valuable, but not as valuable as a starting pitcher.

I respect the view we may just have different names that we'd deal.
I'd caution that OF has been easy to cover for the Cards and I'd want to keep
players that have shown capable of hitting at the MLB. Donovan Scott and Walker
sound weak to me. Cards or any team expecting too many prospects to produce
at the same time are being unrealistic and not competing. The flaw in rebuilds.

Perez is a great target. Not sure why they'd deal him anytime soon but if they did
I'd be pushing our redundancies and a prospect or 2-3.
Walker, Crooks, Roby or a 2B?

On Baseball Trade Values Nootbaar is practically equal in value to Perez. The package I had suggested that was also nearly equal in value was Burleson, Gorman, Crooks, and Graceffo. Why they might do that is they would get 3 players who could probably start and be everyday players for them.

On the give side the Cards are fine if Miami likes that.
Gorman is the only possible sting if/when NA goes but that's how trades are.
Somebody may outbid that for Perez or Miami may wait for Perez to regain value.

I'm not hung up on this particular trade. While it would be a good one, there are a multitude of reasons why it probably won't happen. i'm talking about a framework. The framework is- yes, I would trade young players, and aim for bigger targets. Be the team trading 2-3-4 lesser players and getting one more valuable player in return, not the other way around.

So do you give up the resources in order to get a super stud that you know
you may not re-sign or the resources of say a Goldschmidt type trade?

The point being you don't always need to give a lot in MLB to get
a highly valued player.
In 2025 does it make sense to make a trade for Soto like SD did in 2022, essentially
a season and a half of service?

I don't think this team is that deep. They need to be involved in good old win/win trades
or have a player that is someone else's missing piece. That's our SP's some of which we like.
Then current roster position players, again some of which we like.

IMO the Cards don't need a lot, just need to choose who they want to build with.
Choose a RF bat with production. Choose who's 2b, choose where Herrera is best
Always pitching. Some is here, some will need to be acquired but it is always available
as the late Walt Jocketty once said. WS or bust probably not, but those are rare.

We're not talking about the same thing. I'm not suggesting a Goldschmidt, or Soto type deal, or anyone else that needs to be signed in a year and a half. Contenders aren't trading those players, and we aren't seeking them. In the example I gave, Eury Perez won't be a free agent until 2030. Other targets I've talked about like Coby Mayo of the Orioles and Jackson Farris of the Dodgers are still in the minor leagues. I'm talking about high upside major league ready (or nearly) players that we can build around. If we traded 8 players and got three players of this caliber, we would be better for it.

[scoutyjones2]

Donovan and nootbaar both clipping along at 400 obp. They are about the only thing right with this offense.

Yeah. You don't trade the lynchpins

[Talkin' Baseball]

Donovan and nootbaar both clipping along at 400 obp. They are about the only thing right with this offense.

Yeah. You don't trade the lynchpins

These are supplemental players. Valuable- yes. Linchpins- no.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Assuming this season is a bust might as well try to trade anyone you can for young talent.

What they need is a superstar or someone close. They could attempt to do this by trading the nice players for young’s with potential.

Besides after this season Noot and Donny only have 2 years of control.

Bottom line for me is if it’s a good deal make it regardless of the ramifications of THIS season.

[scoutyjones2]

Donovan and nootbaar both clipping along at 400 obp. They are about the only thing right with this offense.

Yeah. You don't trade the lynchpins

These are supplemental players. Valuable- yes. Linchpins- no.

Lynchpins