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Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

But it won’t happen that’s the point. Arenado will play every day at third only once in a blue moon will he get a day off. Gorman will play second. Winn will play mostly short. Donovan will be the utility guy who take all those starts. Oli loves burly so he will DH and hit 5th. No way they get all of those and saggese playing time. Certainly he wouldn’t be able to get enough playing time to warrant keeping him on the roster

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:42 am

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

But it won’t happen that’s the point. Arenado will play every day at third only once in a blue moon will he get a day off. Gorman will play second. Winn will play mostly short. Donovan will be the utility guy who take all those starts. Oli loves burly so he will DH and hit 5th. No way they get all of those and saggese playing time. Certainly he wouldn’t be able to get enough playing time to warrant keeping him on the roster

Hence Arenado is a roadblock to having young players getting reps. I just don’t understand the logic of those who think it is good to have him on the roster.

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:47 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:42 am

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

But it won’t happen that’s the point. Arenado will play every day at third only once in a blue moon will he get a day off. Gorman will play second. Winn will play mostly short. Donovan will be the utility guy who take all those starts. Oli loves burly so he will DH and hit 5th. No way they get all of those and saggese playing time. Certainly he wouldn’t be able to get enough playing time to warrant keeping him on the roster

Hence Arenado is a roadblock to having young players getting reps. I just don’t understand the logic of those who think it is good to have him on the roster.

It's a similar situation to Helsley's. Right now, it appears Arenado's trade value is being wasted. Why wouldn't a team that looks to be in the race and is need of a 3B, not pay more now for him now rather than at the trade deadline? Bloom should encourage Mo to be aggressive shopping these two now for younger talent for the future.

Shady wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:51 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:47 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:42 am

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

But it won’t happen that’s the point. Arenado will play every day at third only once in a blue moon will he get a day off. Gorman will play second. Winn will play mostly short. Donovan will be the utility guy who take all those starts. Oli loves burly so he will DH and hit 5th. No way they get all of those and saggese playing time. Certainly he wouldn’t be able to get enough playing time to warrant keeping him on the roster

Hence Arenado is a roadblock to having young players getting reps. I just don’t understand the logic of those who think it is good to have him on the roster.

It's a similar situation to Helsley's. Right now, it appears Arenado's trade value is being wasted. Why wouldn't a team that looks to be in the race and is need of a 3B, not pay more now for him now rather than at the trade deadline? Bloom should encourage Mo to be aggressive shopping these two now for younger talent for the future.

Arenado is complicating that with his no trade clause but I do think interest will be higher at trade deadline as long as he performs.

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

I agree a lot with the logic.
The other side is it's a temporary move regardless for Saggese.

With 13 roster players, there are only 3 besides the backup at C. The fewer the tools of those 3 the fewer
times they will get used. Comparing how Baker, Siani, or Burleson are used means less to Saggese, IMO.

The roster having 3 1B, 2 of which are carrying a to date weak calling card is silly. That silly gets underscored
when a SS has a bad back, a 2B has a bad back and the other moonlights as the teams 3rd or 4th OFer.

The best thing would be to find a better home for 1 of the 1B. If 1 of them could be more productive
even IF that's in Memphis that task would be easier.

Shady wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:51 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:47 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:42 am

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

But it won’t happen that’s the point. Arenado will play every day at third only once in a blue moon will he get a day off. Gorman will play second. Winn will play mostly short. Donovan will be the utility guy who take all those starts. Oli loves burly so he will DH and hit 5th. No way they get all of those and saggese playing time. Certainly he wouldn’t be able to get enough playing time to warrant keeping him on the roster

Hence Arenado is a roadblock to having young players getting reps. I just don’t understand the logic of those who think it is good to have him on the roster.

It's a similar situation to Helsley's. Right now, it appears Arenado's trade value is being wasted. Why wouldn't a team that looks to be in the race and is need of a 3B, not pay more now for him now rather than at the trade deadline? Bloom should encourage Mo to be aggressive shopping these two now for younger talent for the future.

1. It's absolutely NOTHING like the Helsley situation. Cards are loaded with guys who can play third. Gorman, Saggese, Hurdy Gurdy, and JJ within the next year. The team has absolutely no one who can replace Helsley.

2. Teams typically wait until trade deadline to ensure they're still in the race and to minimize what they have to give up. Note: NADO HAS A NO-TRADE CLAUSE.

Siani or Baker should go down.

Bumbles and UniKKKorn split duties at DH and spelling people in the field. Winn, Saggese, Nado, WillyCon is your infield every day with bumbleKKKorn rotating thru

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

That makes sense giving Saggese more PT. Let Saggese and Gorman compete for PT at second base. And have Saggese as a fine defense backup at SS. And Gorman and Burleson, possibly, compete for the regular DH vs RHP. Not sure where that leaves Nootbaar as a starting outfielder.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 11:37 am Siani or Baker should go down.

Bumbles and UniKKKorn split duties at DH and spelling people in the field. Winn, Saggese, Nado, WillyCon is your infield every day with bumbleKKKorn rotating thru

That becomes an interesting debate.
Choosing between Which backup DH/1B to keep.
BD is a LH option to WC and probably a better 1B than WC but how often will WC really set
and that LH bat at the DH actually can take time from Gorman at DH.

renostl wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 11:51 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 11:37 am Siani or Baker should go down.

Bumbles and UniKKKorn split duties at DH and spelling people in the field. Winn, Saggese, Nado, WillyCon is your infield every day with bumbleKKKorn rotating thru

That becomes an interesting debate.
Choosing between Which backup DH/1B to keep.
BD is a LH option to WC and probably a better 1B than WC but how often will WC really set
and that LH bat at the DH actually can take time from Gorman at DH.

If I'm trading one, as part of a package, it's Bumbles

Glad to get Winn back.

Had that been him making that throw to 1st base last night at 95 MPH instead of Donny's weaker throw, then Riley would've been out instead of safe after replay and wouldn't have scored the tying run.

Winn's bazooka would've nailed him.

Shady wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 11:38 am

12xu wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 10:30 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:54 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 09:30 am I hope Saggese sticks and more importantly plays on a regular basis. He has earned it. But if does not play send him back down I guess.

+1 it would be dumb to keep him up just to use him agsinst lefthanders he needs to play every day in the majors or he needs to be in the minors to play every day. No platooning no splitting playing time every day he needs to be in the lineup or it’s dumb

He does not need to be limited to playing only vs LH pitchers. He can play 2B, SS, 3B and get plenty of PT in St. Louis. Play Donovan more in the OF once Siani is sent down. Saggese then plays 2B most of the time, while Gorman becomes primary DH. Burleson needs less PT, he is currently a liability at the plate.

That makes sense giving Saggese more PT. Let Saggese and Gorman compete for PT at second base. And have Saggese as a fine defense backup at SS. And Gorman and Burleson, possibly, compete for the regular DH vs RHP. Not sure where that leaves Nootbaar as a starting outfielder.

Nobody really needs 600 PA's set aside for them.
1800 PA's in the OF/4 will give each 450 PA's.

As to Burly and NG competition. That started on March 27th. To date OPS .785 to .585, 4 XBH in 31 ab's to 3 XBH in 67 ab's,
one has 61 HR in 1085 ab's, one 30 in 997 ab's. Compared that way due to profile. One has had roster spots due to default mostly.
He was on the cusp of cuts prior to injury. He remained healthy and still hasn't secured a spot. At the very least we can acknowledge
that he's viewed as a safety net by the FO, nothing near core. Why allow him any ab's over someone that is hopeful at being core
regardless if we debate that the FO is right or wrong? They do not care about Reno's or Shady's opinion, they just want us interested.

The inability to move NA should have cost either Baker or Burleson playing time or roster. Not Gorman.
It's early, today, so time to work itself out, but really Burleson's role is a safety net waiting for somebody
to grab the position. Bakers is similar. A pinch hitter. Neither should take away time in a "lets give them plenty of
playing time to see what we have" season.

ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Apr 2025 08:39 am Nice to have Winn back. That was painful watching Donnie’s play on routine grounder where runner beats it out.
Instead if 2 outs nobody on .. runner on 1st and 1 out.
Changed the inning .

this. cost us the game, in my opinion. he took extra steps before throwing and doesn't have the arm to make up for it. I think saggese makes that play.

Saggese or Winn at SS long term?

Would Cards consider trading Winn?