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hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 17:21 pm There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 17:21 pm There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 18:16 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 17:21 pm There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

There is no clearcut definition for "contender in 2025". The Cardinals are trying to build a competitive team that serves as a building block for improvement over time. A competitive team is one that has a chance to win on any given night. It doesn't mean we have to win 90 games. 85...or any other number. I believe we were on the way to doing this with solid starters and some high end relievers. The young position players started the year well and it was fun to watch the Birds play. Boston and the Mets have exposed a particular weakness with our pen resulting in 7 of 7 losses away. Virtually all of the Mets games were close and pushed the pen to the breaking point.

Were not going to spend big. Not at this time and not for quite a while. On the other hand, a strategic acquisition is not outside of the realm of the possible.

The pen disaster developed as a result of 2 things. 2 pitchers (Fernandez and King) who were quite effective last year have been completely ineffective this year. 2 other pitchers who were critical to the pen last year, (Liberatore and Matz) are starting now. The weakness is not starters. The starters have done a credible job save one or two games. But, the chain link weakness is clearly bullpen and the offense cannot compensate. There is no pending disaster. If we don't reach playoffs, few will be surprised. But, these players need to believe that they have a chance to win, or they will fold the tents...pure and simple. Not sure how that will play with the building block plans...but it won't help.

By moving Matz and Mikolas to the pen we keep some future building plans in place with Libby and perhaps McGreevy as starters. Focusing this team on winning should be what it is about. Screw the playoffs. Dam.n the torpedos.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 18:41 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 18:16 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 17:21 pm There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

There is no clearcut definition for "contender in 2025". The Cardinals are trying to build a competitive team that serves as a building block for improvement over time. A competitive team is one that has a chance to win on any given night. It doesn't mean we have to win 90 games. 85...or any other number. I believe we were on the way to doing this with solid starters and some high end relievers. The young position players started the year well and it was fun to watch the Birds play. Boston and the Mets have exposed a particular weakness with our pen resulting in 7 of 7 losses away. Virtually all of the Mets games were close and pushed the pen to the breaking point.

Were not going to spend big. Not at this time and not for quite a while. On the other hand, a strategic acquisition is not outside of the realm of the possible.

The pen disaster developed as a result of 2 things. 2 pitchers (Fernandez and King) who were quite effective last year have been completely ineffective this year. 2 other pitchers who were critical to the pen last year, (Liberatore and Matz) are starting now. The weakness is not starters. The starters have done a credible job save one or two games. But, the chain link weakness is clearly bullpen and the offense cannot compensate. There is no pending disaster. If we don't reach playoffs, few will be surprised. But, these players need to believe that they have a chance to win, or they will fold the tents...pure and simple. Not sure how that will play with the building block plans...but it won't help.

By moving Matz and Mikolas to the pen we keep some future building plans in place with Libby and perhaps McGreevy as starters. Focusing this team on winning should be what it is about. Screw the playoffs. Dam.n the torpedos.

A thoughtful post. My only concern with the idea of moving M and M to the pen is who replaces them i the rotation and who is ready to do that? I'd hate to bring up some kids not ready and hurt their confidence if they aren't ready. But I'm no scout and don't know who they could replace King and fernandez with.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 18:55 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 18:41 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 18:16 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2025 17:21 pm There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

There is no clearcut definition for "contender in 2025". The Cardinals are trying to build a competitive team that serves as a building block for improvement over time. A competitive team is one that has a chance to win on any given night. It doesn't mean we have to win 90 games. 85...or any other number. I believe we were on the way to doing this with solid starters and some high end relievers. The young position players started the year well and it was fun to watch the Birds play. Boston and the Mets have exposed a particular weakness with our pen resulting in 7 of 7 losses away. Virtually all of the Mets games were close and pushed the pen to the breaking point.

Were not going to spend big. Not at this time and not for quite a while. On the other hand, a strategic acquisition is not outside of the realm of the possible.

The pen disaster developed as a result of 2 things. 2 pitchers (Fernandez and King) who were quite effective last year have been completely ineffective this year. 2 other pitchers who were critical to the pen last year, (Liberatore and Matz) are starting now. The weakness is not starters. The starters have done a credible job save one or two games. But, the chain link weakness is clearly bullpen and the offense cannot compensate. There is no pending disaster. If we don't reach playoffs, few will be surprised. But, these players need to believe that they have a chance to win, or they will fold the tents...pure and simple. Not sure how that will play with the building block plans...but it won't help.

By moving Matz and Mikolas to the pen we keep some future building plans in place with Libby and perhaps McGreevy as starters. Focusing this team on winning should be what it is about. Screw the playoffs. Dam.n the torpedos.

A thoughtful post. My only concern with the idea of moving M and M to the pen is who replaces them i the rotation and who is ready to do that? I'd hate to bring up some kids not ready and hurt their confidence if they aren't ready. But I'm no scout and don't know who they could replace King and fernandez with.

I apologize if I wasn't clear. We are currently at 6 starters. I would go back to 5 and replace the missing starter with McGreevy. He started very well once or twice last year and has been starting in Memphis. I think it's time to insert him.