STLtoday.com

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

When oli can’t paint by numbers manage he is going to fail most of the time

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

Hey .. Oli knows best ..
But it did seem a bit early to pull Mikolas. Even after he gave up the 2 runs it seemed early. 2 runs in almost 5 innings isn't terrible. But, it is Mikolas so I won't judge any Oli's who pull him early. He has been awful. when era is near 8 it usually isn't good.

I rarely give Oli a break because I think he is pretty terrible at his job... but just this once ... What was Oli to do? Leave him in to give up 5 and have to make excuses about why he left him in?

Road wins may not be plentiful all season. This team lacks.

Still watching. Go Cards

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

Relievers are volatile year to year except for the elite ones. Fernandez has had consistency issues all through the minirs. Thats why he was a rule 5 puck and not oritected. He has good enough stuff and last year he was able o get in a groove and harness it for long enough of a strezch of the season. Inthink he actually faded a bit down the stretch though. This year hes off again. Hes a guy who may have good years when he finds a groove but will probably never be consjstent year to year guy.id send him down except we actually need options to replace. We arent likely to trade for much help since this is a rebuild year.

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 03:19 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

Hey .. Oli knows best ..
But it did seem a bit early to pull Mikolas. Even after he gave up the 2 runs it seemed early. 2 runs in almost 5 innings isn't terrible. But, it is Mikolas so I won't judge any Oli's who pull him early. He has been awful. when era is near 8 it usually isn't good.

I rarely give Oli a break because I think he is pretty terrible at his job... but just this once ... What was Oli to do? Leave him in to give up 5 and have to make excuses about why he left him in?

Road wins may not be plentiful all season. This team lacks.

Still watching. Go Cards

I dont get the 6 man rotation nonsense. Seemes overly cautious. I mean, oli already pulls our starters earlier than most managers, so do we really need to go to 6 man rotation this early in the season. Are they really gonna get overworked this fast throwing on 4 days rest when oli gives quick hooks?

Because pulling matz out of the bullpen puts us a reliever short and a reliable reliever short on a team in great shortage of them

CardinalInNC wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 20:57 pm Good Lord, I smelled that walk off coming a mile away

He always gets put on the mound every time when the game is tied and blows it EVERY TIME!!! Every time it is so predictable!

Why is that clown 1980s throwback hack relief pitcher even on this roster?

We sent Roycroft down, now send this fool down too and make sure he never comes back. ENOUGH ENOUGH!!

I especially enjoyed Brad Thompson tell us how much better Fernandez looked lately.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

Bingo.

CardinalInNC wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 20:57 pm Good Lord, I smelled that walk off coming a mile away

He always gets put on the mound every time when the game is tied and blows it EVERY TIME!!! Every time it is so predictable!

Why is that clown 1980s throwback hack relief pitcher even on this roster?

We sent Roycroft down, now send this fool down too and make sure he never comes back. ENOUGH ENOUGH!!

+1

Do your job Mo, send him down ASAP

rockondlouie wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:20 am

CardinalInNC wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 20:57 pm Good Lord, I smelled that walk off coming a mile away

He always gets put on the mound every time when the game is tied and blows it EVERY TIME!!! Every time it is so predictable!

Why is that clown 1980s throwback hack relief pitcher even on this roster?

We sent Roycroft down, now send this fool down too and make sure he never comes back. ENOUGH ENOUGH!!

+1

Do your job Mo, send him down ASAP

MO do his job? LOL

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:28 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:21 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:16 pm

CardinalInNC wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:13 pm And I normally don't spend too much time ripping on Marmol compared to others, but his constant sending this useless unreliable hack out there to pitch every time the game is on the line is getting so ridiculous he deserves to be cut a new one for doing it.

#64 singlehandedly loses games out there

Other than Helsley who is the closer, who's left?

Well he pulled King after only facing one man in the 5th.
The players need to perform but Oli flat out doesn’t have it.
If the young guys get a chance and they can that goof I’ll be happy regardless of finish.

Had Maton not given up the unearned run (his error), Helsley would have pitched the bottom of the 9th with a 1 run lead for the save. We've got an execution problem more than a 2d guessing Oli problem tonight.

King does have a 2+ whip after all. Not sure how long you wanted him in the game.

I was just responding to a question asked by another.
Hindsight is always 20/20!
With 6 SP’s you are reduced 1 BP arm to 7.
Mikolas starts to struggle in the 5th. Need more length but do you pull him?
I think Oli did the right thing there. King got the lefty.
Now...do you let him start the 6th to try and get a few more batters?
I don’t remember who was up but he brought in Leahy who had been very good.
He gave up a run. Again using hindsight.
Romero in the 7th made sense. As did Maton in the 8th( he has been outstanding).
I can’t really question Oli until the ninth.
I can see holding back Helsley for hopefully the save in the 10th if they score the ghost runner.
If the bottom of the order? Maybe? But their best hitters.
Wasn’t ME-ville wanting to save Helsley for the 10th?
Again hindsight.

82birds wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:23 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:20 am

CardinalInNC wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 20:57 pm Good Lord, I smelled that walk off coming a mile away

He always gets put on the mound every time when the game is tied and blows it EVERY TIME!!! Every time it is so predictable!

Why is that clown 1980s throwback hack relief pitcher even on this roster?

We sent Roycroft down, now send this fool down too and make sure he never comes back. ENOUGH ENOUGH!!

+1

Do your job Mo, send him down ASAP

MO do his job? LOL

No doubt, the guy's gone R.O.A.D........can't even get this P O S off the team.

Perhaps Oli and Dusty should instruct their relievers to NOT throw meatball directly over the plate when tied or leading by a run in late innings.
The numbers of floaters or spinners or hangers that cross the plate the last few games is comical. If they don’t have mastery of that pitch they shouldn’t be throwing it in close late games…..PERIOD

Wattage wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:10 am

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 03:19 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

Hey .. Oli knows best ..
But it did seem a bit early to pull Mikolas. Even after he gave up the 2 runs it seemed early. 2 runs in almost 5 innings isn't terrible. But, it is Mikolas so I won't judge any Oli's who pull him early. He has been awful. when era is near 8 it usually isn't good.

I rarely give Oli a break because I think he is pretty terrible at his job... but just this once ... What was Oli to do? Leave him in to give up 5 and have to make excuses about why he left him in?

Road wins may not be plentiful all season. This team lacks.

Still watching. Go Cards

I dont get the 6 man rotation nonsense. Seemes overly cautious. I mean, oli already pulls our starters earlier than most managers, so do we really need to go to 6 man rotation this early in the season. Are they really gonna get overworked this fast throwing on 4 days rest when oli gives quick hooks?

Because pulling matz out of the bullpen puts us a reliever short and a reliable reliever short on a team in great shortage of them

I agree on the 6 man rotation!
One less BP arm. Helsley/Maton/Leahy even Romero have been good/very good.
King has been shaky. Fernandez has been a dumpster fire and then you have the revolving #7 spot.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but with Libby AND Matz starting you also have no “long man”. Matz was very good in his start. Got them a win.
But.....if you have Matz in the BP he is the long man last night in the 5th.
Then the 6th at least.
That left him going to Fernandez in the 9th.
Again.....hindsight. But I think they need Matz(or Libby 2024) when you need to pull your starter early.
Time will tell.

Cusecards wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:33 am

Wattage wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:10 am

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 03:19 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

Hey .. Oli knows best ..
But it did seem a bit early to pull Mikolas. Even after he gave up the 2 runs it seemed early. 2 runs in almost 5 innings isn't terrible. But, it is Mikolas so I won't judge any Oli's who pull him early. He has been awful. when era is near 8 it usually isn't good.

I rarely give Oli a break because I think he is pretty terrible at his job... but just this once ... What was Oli to do? Leave him in to give up 5 and have to make excuses about why he left him in?

Road wins may not be plentiful all season. This team lacks.

Still watching. Go Cards

I dont get the 6 man rotation nonsense. Seemes overly cautious. I mean, oli already pulls our starters earlier than most managers, so do we really need to go to 6 man rotation this early in the season. Are they really gonna get overworked this fast throwing on 4 days rest when oli gives quick hooks?

Because pulling matz out of the bullpen puts us a reliever short and a reliable reliever short on a team in great shortage of them

I agree on the 6 man rotation!
One less BP arm. Helsley/Maton/Leahy even Romero have been good/very good.
King has been shaky. Fernandez has been a dumpster fire and then you have the revolving #7 spot.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but with Libby AND Matz starting you also have no “long man”. Matz was very good in his start. Got them a win.
But.....if you have Matz in the BP he is the long man last night in the 5th.
Then the 6th at least.
That left him going to Fernandez in the 9th.
Again.....hindsight. But I think they need Matz(or Libby 2024) when you need to pull your starter early.
Time will tell.

When you think about it the bullpen that was so effective in 2024 has lost not one (Matz) quality arm to the starting rotation but two (LIbby).

The removal of Libby and now Matz as the sixth starter during this stretch of games has really weakened the pen'.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 09:42 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:33 am

Wattage wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:10 am

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 03:19 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

Hey .. Oli knows best ..
But it did seem a bit early to pull Mikolas. Even after he gave up the 2 runs it seemed early. 2 runs in almost 5 innings isn't terrible. But, it is Mikolas so I won't judge any Oli's who pull him early. He has been awful. when era is near 8 it usually isn't good.

I rarely give Oli a break because I think he is pretty terrible at his job... but just this once ... What was Oli to do? Leave him in to give up 5 and have to make excuses about why he left him in?

Road wins may not be plentiful all season. This team lacks.

Still watching. Go Cards

I dont get the 6 man rotation nonsense. Seemes overly cautious. I mean, oli already pulls our starters earlier than most managers, so do we really need to go to 6 man rotation this early in the season. Are they really gonna get overworked this fast throwing on 4 days rest when oli gives quick hooks?

Because pulling matz out of the bullpen puts us a reliever short and a reliable reliever short on a team in great shortage of them

I agree on the 6 man rotation!
One less BP arm. Helsley/Maton/Leahy even Romero have been good/very good.
King has been shaky. Fernandez has been a dumpster fire and then you have the revolving #7 spot.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but with Libby AND Matz starting you also have no “long man”. Matz was very good in his start. Got them a win.
But.....if you have Matz in the BP he is the long man last night in the 5th.
Then the 6th at least.
That left him going to Fernandez in the 9th.
Again.....hindsight. But I think they need Matz(or Libby 2024) when you need to pull your starter early.
Time will tell.

When you think about it the bullpen that was so effective in 2024 has lost not one (Matz) quality arm to the starting rotation but two (LIbby).

The removal of Libby and now Matz as the sixth starter during this stretch of games has really weakened the pen'.

Very true.
Added Maton who has been great but that just replaced Kittredge.
Like you said....Matz & Libby now starting.
Leahy has been good but Fernandez who was good last year has stunk!

A 6 man rotation for each of those poor babies to throw 4 or 5 innings? If Gibby was still alive he would punch Moe in the mouth. It’s just so hard to watch this sport any longer.

Cusecards wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 09:48 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 09:42 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:33 am

Wattage wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 08:10 am

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 03:19 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 23:26 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:56 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 22:37 pm

cardsfaninla wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 21:11 pm He hasn't been great ... not at all. Still not our biggest problem by a long stretch.

Honestly the bullpen has easily been the biggest overall weakness on this team. Yes we have issues with guys like contreras but out of starting hitting defense or relief as a whole, relief pitching is easily the weakest. Its especially manified with our temporary 6 man rotation pulling matz out of the bullpen. Only maton and helsley have really been great. Jojo has been okay and leahy has been serviceable but they are relying on him too much. We need several people to step up. Too many weak links in pen

I agree the bullpen is weak. Much of the team is weak.
How was Fernandez good enough last year to keep as a rule 5 guy all season and now this season ppl want him gone?

Baseball is a tough mistress.

This is what happens when you pull your starter in a 2-2 game in the 5th inning.

Trusting any bullpen to get 13-outs without getting roughed up a bit on the road is a pretty tall order.

Hey .. Oli knows best ..
But it did seem a bit early to pull Mikolas. Even after he gave up the 2 runs it seemed early. 2 runs in almost 5 innings isn't terrible. But, it is Mikolas so I won't judge any Oli's who pull him early. He has been awful. when era is near 8 it usually isn't good.

I rarely give Oli a break because I think he is pretty terrible at his job... but just this once ... What was Oli to do? Leave him in to give up 5 and have to make excuses about why he left him in?

Road wins may not be plentiful all season. This team lacks.

Still watching. Go Cards

I dont get the 6 man rotation nonsense. Seemes overly cautious. I mean, oli already pulls our starters earlier than most managers, so do we really need to go to 6 man rotation this early in the season. Are they really gonna get overworked this fast throwing on 4 days rest when oli gives quick hooks?

Because pulling matz out of the bullpen puts us a reliever short and a reliable reliever short on a team in great shortage of them

I agree on the 6 man rotation!
One less BP arm. Helsley/Maton/Leahy even Romero have been good/very good.
King has been shaky. Fernandez has been a dumpster fire and then you have the revolving #7 spot.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but with Libby AND Matz starting you also have no “long man”. Matz was very good in his start. Got them a win.
But.....if you have Matz in the BP he is the long man last night in the 5th.
Then the 6th at least.
That left him going to Fernandez in the 9th.
Again.....hindsight. But I think they need Matz(or Libby 2024) when you need to pull your starter early.
Time will tell.

When you think about it the bullpen that was so effective in 2024 has lost not one (Matz) quality arm to the starting rotation but two (LIbby).

The removal of Libby and now Matz as the sixth starter during this stretch of games has really weakened the pen'.

Very true.
Added Maton who has been great but that just replaced Kittredge.
Like you said....Matz & Libby now starting.
Leahy has been good but Fernandez who was good last year has stunk!

Maton has been a near perfect replacement for Kitt (too bad he had that errant pickoff attempt last night that cost him).

The only reliable arms in the pen' now are Helsley-Maton-Leahy (but has to stop giving up the HR's lately) and most of the time JoJo.

That's too THIN a pen'!

I'd even bring up McGreevy for the pen' if they're going to keep Mikolas in the SR and not start him this season.