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This being a rebuild what does it matter. Isn't the idea to put the pups in place and leave them alone. See what they can do. Winn at leadoff is way down the list of problems with this lineup.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 11:09 am Here is what makes my head dizzy. Not the herb. The fact that 13 seasoned posters say no, not one maybe, and yet, it continues to happen.

I’m ok with it if it works. But the board, a fan based knowledgeable board, says no.

How can that be?

Re:
Oli

Re:
Stupid Manager

I don't mind seeing him get a chance there vs. LHPs.

But either Donovan or Nootbaar should be leading off (and the other batting #2) vs. RHPs.

I don’t mind him LO in ST if he needs the PAs…

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 11:17 am

renostl wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 11:14 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 11:09 am Here is what makes my head dizzy. Not the herb. The fact that 13 seasoned posters say no, not one maybe, and yet, it continues to happen.

I’m ok with it if it works. But the board, a fan based knowledgeable board, says no.

How can that be?

Currently it is trying to place a square peg in a round hole.

The appeal is there. Put a VS2 #9, LN #2. But
wanting it to happen doesn't make it so.

It works if all three are productive league percentile. Another measure is, how often does he get on from the first batter of the game.

Say 162 leadoff at bats, a good OBP would be what, including walks hit batters and hits.

Yes.
That becomes the issue.

You want your best hitters to get more AB's plain and simple.
Your best hitters though need to be among the league's better hitters, they
can't be among the leagues average hitters or everybody down lineup
is below average.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 10:10 am Good morning.

I read where many of you have expressed concern that Winn lead off.

Leadoff must get on base and steal. Does he do this. No.

I’m not asking where he hits. Not the intent.

Do you think Winn should lead off. That’s the one answer question.

Enjoy.

Wiser people on CT have proven to me we should start with Noot at leadoff.

Nothing in his profile suggests he should be a leadoff hitter except his speed, and the cardinals show zero interest in stealing bases. I think he profiles as a 5 or 6. He could easily become a 20HR guy.
Due to the lack of desire to run, I’d go with Donovan. If nootbaar hits, then I’d highly consider Contreras 2 and noot 3

Watching the game today, and seeing Winn’s at bats, he’s uppercutting on every swing. He says he’s stopped hunting homers, but his swing says otherwise!

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 13:28 pm Watching the game today, and seeing Winn’s at bats, he’s uppercutting on every swing. He says he’s stopped hunting homers, but his swing says otherwise!

Hoosier, completely agree with you for what it’s worth. Sounds like he’s trying to make adjustments and struggling. One would think that Oli would give him this time at 8th or 9th with the target of just increasing his OBP.

I do think he’s capable of some power but even when connecting he is a table setter and capable creating havoc for the top of the order by hitting down in the line up. But that would require an advanced thought process by a capable major league manager.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 11:17 am

renostl wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 11:14 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 11:09 am Here is what makes my head dizzy. Not the herb. The fact that 13 seasoned posters say no, not one maybe, and yet, it continues to happen.

I’m ok with it if it works. But the board, a fan based knowledgeable board, says no.

How can that be?

Currently it is trying to place a square peg in a round hole.

The appeal is there. Put a VS2 #9, LN #2. But
wanting it to happen doesn't make it so.

It works if all three are productive league percentile. Another measure is, how often does he get on from the first batter of the game.

Say 162 leadoff at bats, a good OBP would be what, including walks hit batters and hits.

A minimum of 55 times on base out of 162 plate appearances.

.340+ OBP minimum.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 Mar 2025 10:10 am Good morning.

I read where many of you have expressed concern that Winn lead off.

Leadoff must get on base and steal. Does he do this. No.

I’m not asking where he hits. Not the intent.

Do you think Winn should lead off. That’s the one answer question.

Enjoy.

Been saying since last season...only a fool would bat Winn in the lead off spot. Then again, when it comes to Oli...if the Shoe fits...

Personally, I would go with Noot to lead off with Winn hitting 2nd. This puts him in a position of concentrating on 2 things, move the runner over and make solid contact. It takes the HR off the board.

OBP says no.

Winn is 3 for 35 this spring. He’s hitting .085. Zero x-base hits. He has walked 3 times with 11 Ks. His OBP this spring is .157. If the Cardinals had any other option, there’s a chance that Winn would be sent back to AAA BUT the Cardinals don’t have another option.

This being the case, the Cardinals need to drop him down in the order to take some of the pressure off of him. The team is struggling offensively and Winn doesn’t need the added pressure of hitting leadoff and trying to be a catalyst for this team.

Playing the young guys is one thing. Letting them work out their issues is admirable. Don’t bury this kid with unnecessary pressure of being something he’s not.

Yes he is the leadoff man. And if I had Goldy still, I'd hit him 2nd.

-Oli

Scott at leadoff.
Mootbaar on the bench or traded.
Correct baseball decision.