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Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 10:48 am
by Youboughtit
Melville wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:28 am
Pitching staffs tend to like elite defense in CF.
And elite defensive CF's tend to play as a result.
Remember Gary Pettis?
Played 13 years in MLB - 8 as a starter.
Career .236 BA.
Never more than 56 RBI in a season.
Scored 93 one year and 77 another - and never had more than 67 in any other season.
Never hit more than 5 HR in a season.
Incredibly, reach 20 doubles in a season just one time.
But, he did win 5 Gold Gloves in 6 years - routinely rating 15-20 runs better with the glove than league average.
And that kept him on the field.
Teams with great offense can do that. Not this team
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 11:00 am
by rockondlouie
Noot needs to be in CF AND LEADING OFF!
Siani only comes in for late inning defense.
But the little idiot in the dugout will play Siani way, way too much in CF (and probably P. Pages behind the plate too many game too).
Moron
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 11:10 am
by Absolut
Melville wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:28 am
Pitching staffs tend to like elite defense in CF.
And elite defensive CF's tend to play as a result.
Remember Gary Pettis?
Played 13 years in MLB - 8 as a starter.
Career .236 BA.
Never more than 56 RBI in a season.
Scored 93 one year and 77 another - and never had more than 67 in any other season.
Never hit more than 5 HR in a season.
Incredibly, reach 20 doubles in a season just one time.
But, he did win 5 Gold Gloves in 6 years - routinely rating 15-20 runs better with the glove than league average.
And that kept him on the field.
Admittedly it’s early, but Pettis’ obp was 50 points higher and he walked twice as often as siani
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 11:18 am
by scoutyjones2
kscardsfan wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:14 am
Most Card fans have forgotten what a great CF looks like. They thought Bader was it. Wasn't a great outfielder. Saw some great catches. But saw him too often turn and run back to get the ball that he dove and wiffed on. But hey he had made sportscenter for the good ones.
Had speed. Wasn't a base stealer. Had to be on base to steal. Couldn't hit a lick. Now they drool over Siani. Defense seems to be all that they think you need.. How many years since we had a bonafide major league outfield? 2013.... 2013. Twelve years of a rebuild out there where you need production. Wasted years.
Don't all baseball players need to be on base to steal?
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 11:48 am
by rockondlouie
Melville wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:28 am
Pitching staffs tend to like elite defense in CF.
And elite defensive CF's tend to play as a result.
Remember Gary Pettis?
Played 13 years in MLB - 8 as a starter.
Career .236 BA.
Never more than 56 RBI in a season.
Scored 93 one year and 77 another - and never had more than 67 in any other season.
Never hit more than 5 HR in a season.
Incredibly, reach 20 doubles in a season just one time.
But, he did win 5 Gold Gloves in 6 years - routinely rating 15-20 runs better with the glove than league average.
And that kept him on the field.
Pettis 11 yr MLB career
One (1) playoff team in 1986
All Glove/No Hit CF'ers aren't practical on offensively challenged teams like the 2024 Cardinals were and the 2025 Cardinals may be.
Siani needs to sit, only comes in for late inning defense w/Noot moving to either LF or RF.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 11:57 am
by Ozziesfan41
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 11:48 am
Melville wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:28 am
Pitching staffs tend to like elite defense in CF.
And elite defensive CF's tend to play as a result.
Remember Gary Pettis?
Played 13 years in MLB - 8 as a starter.
Career .236 BA.
Never more than 56 RBI in a season.
Scored 93 one year and 77 another - and never had more than 67 in any other season.
Never hit more than 5 HR in a season.
Incredibly, reach 20 doubles in a season just one time.
But, he did win 5 Gold Gloves in 6 years - routinely rating 15-20 runs better with the glove than league average.
And that kept him on the field.
Pettis 11 yr MLB career
One (1) playoff team in 1986
All Glove/No Hit CF'ers aren't practical on offensively challenged teams like the 2024 Cardinals were and the 2025 Cardinals may be.
Siani needs to sit, only comes in for late inning defense w/Noot moving to either LF or RF.
If Siani could manage a .332 career OBP like petis did he would definitely play. I don’t think he will do that though
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 12:35 pm
by rockondlouie
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 11:57 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 11:48 am
Melville wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:28 am
Pitching staffs tend to like elite defense in CF.
And elite defensive CF's tend to play as a result.
Remember Gary Pettis?
Played 13 years in MLB - 8 as a starter.
Career .236 BA.
Never more than 56 RBI in a season.
Scored 93 one year and 77 another - and never had more than 67 in any other season.
Never hit more than 5 HR in a season.
Incredibly, reach 20 doubles in a season just one time.
But, he did win 5 Gold Gloves in 6 years - routinely rating 15-20 runs better with the glove than league average.
And that kept him on the field.
Pettis 11 yr MLB career
One (1) playoff team in 1986
All Glove/No Hit CF'ers aren't practical on offensively challenged teams like the 2024 Cardinals were and the 2025 Cardinals may be.
Siani needs to sit, only comes in for late inning defense w/Noot moving to either LF or RF.
If Siani could manage a .332 career OBP like petis did he would definitely play. I don’t think he will do that though
.275 career OB%, .285 OB% in 2024.
I agree w/you he'll never come close to that.
He s u c k s at the plate, should NEVER be a starting CF in MLB.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 13:18 pm
by AnExParrot
kscardsfan wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:14 am
Most Card fans have forgotten what a great CF looks like. They thought Bader was it. Wasn't a great outfielder. Saw some great catches. But saw him too often turn and run back to get the ball that he dove and wiffed on. But hey he had made sportscenter for the good ones. Had speed. Wasn't a base stealer. Had to be on base to steal. Couldn't hit a lick. Now they drool over Siani. Defense seems to be all that they think you need.. How many years since we had a bonafide major league outfield? 2013.... 2013. Twelve years of a rebuild out there where you need production. Wasted years.
Couldn't hit a lick?
The three seasons Bader played at least 100 games with the Cardinals, he was an above average bat - 6, 14, and 14% above league average by OPS+ and 7, 14 and 8% above average by wRC+. While that isn't an all-star, it isn't "couldn't hit a lick" either.
And literally no one is drooling over Siani. On the other hand, plenty of people in this very thread(and many others) have called him a 5th OF or nothing more than a defensive replacement for late innings.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 14:34 pm
by An Old Friend
Web7 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 09:16 am
The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani
If you’re finding yourself frustrated over a spring training lineup in February, you should go for a walk and decompress.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 14:43 pm
by BrockFloodMaris
Siani is a light-hitting left hander on a team full of left handers. Michael Helman fills a couple roster spots--RH back-up SS and RH back-up CF. Let's package Siani in a trade and let Scott2 and Helman back up Burly, Noot and JW. Send Fermin down the road too.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 14:54 pm
by renostl
Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:21 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:16 am
Web7 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 09:16 am
The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani
Neither are Major League caliber players. Neither should start unless they earn a job. This team has no centerfielder who is close who can hit.
By default we are stuck with Noot playing center out of position or one of these two.
Noot + Burly offense > Noot + Siani/Scott Defense. Especially on a team that needs offense. The Dodgers could afford to play a Defenseive first CF. Not this roster.
IF they're not going to score much, they may want to limit what the other team scores.
Just the other view. Might help get more innings out of your own pitching staff.
Burly has to win his DH spot. If he does fine, the production winner plays. As should always be the case.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 14:59 pm
by ecleme22
Web7 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 09:16 am
The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani
It’s not like they just signed him to a long contract.
He is merely a CFer on a team that is thin in that spot.
He also plays really good defense.
Lastly, spring training lineups change day to day.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 15:07 pm
by Mort Gage
Web7 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 09:16 am
The guy can’t hit …. We need to let Scott play and if he fails then go to Siani
No real attraction to Siani but if he or Scott is not in center a chain reaction of weakened defense happens. Walker has more pressure in RF. Gorman plays 2B instead of Donovan. I guess it depends on one's offense vs defense preference.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 15:10 pm
by Melville
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 11:00 am
Noot needs to be in CF AND LEADING OFF!
Siani only comes in for late inning defense.
But the little idiot in the dugout will play Siani way, way too much in CF (and probably P. Pages behind the plate too many game too).
Moron
Siani is 40-50 runs better defensively in CF over the course of a season compared to Mootbaar.
The correct answer was to trade Mootbaar and acquire a high quality, productive, established, reliable RH corner outfielder.
Mo failed.
Therefore, the offense must rest on the infield/DH roles.
Good news is that group will be far better than last season's.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 15:12 pm
by Melville
Absolut wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 11:10 am
Melville wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:28 am
Pitching staffs tend to like elite defense in CF.
And elite defensive CF's tend to play as a result.
Remember Gary Pettis?
Played 13 years in MLB - 8 as a starter.
Career .236 BA.
Never more than 56 RBI in a season.
Scored 93 one year and 77 another - and never had more than 67 in any other season.
Never hit more than 5 HR in a season.
Incredibly, reach 20 doubles in a season just one time.
But, he did win 5 Gold Gloves in 6 years - routinely rating 15-20 runs better with the glove than league average.
And that kept him on the field.
Admittedly it’s early, but Pettis’ obp was 50 points higher and he walked twice as often as siani
That is true - but Bettis was still a non-factor offensively.
He played because the pitching staff wanted him in CF.
Re: What is the attraction to Siani?
Posted: 22 Feb 2025 15:17 pm
by Melville
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 11:57 am
rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 11:48 am
Melville wrote: ↑22 Feb 2025 10:28 am
Pitching staffs tend to like elite defense in CF.
And elite defensive CF's tend to play as a result.
Remember Gary Pettis?
Played 13 years in MLB - 8 as a starter.
Career .236 BA.
Never more than 56 RBI in a season.
Scored 93 one year and 77 another - and never had more than 67 in any other season.
Never hit more than 5 HR in a season.
Incredibly, reach 20 doubles in a season just one time.
But, he did win 5 Gold Gloves in 6 years - routinely rating 15-20 runs better with the glove than league average.
And that kept him on the field.
Pettis 11 yr MLB career
One (1) playoff team in 1986
All Glove/No Hit CF'ers aren't practical on offensively challenged teams like the 2024 Cardinals were and the 2025 Cardinals may be.
Siani needs to sit, only comes in for late inning defense w/Noot moving to either LF or RF.
If Siani could manage a .332 career OBP like petis did he would definitely play. I don’t think he will do that though
I agree with you.
But that's not the point.
Siani plays because the team has not better option.
It would be great if the team had a quality RH hitting CF.
They don't.
And playing Mootbaar in CF remains a worse option than Siani.
What the team really needed was to allow Siani/Scott to compete in CF - and since both are LH Mootbaar should have been shipped out and a RH corner added.
It was obviously the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
But Super Slo Mo hung onto Lars the Human Sushi-baar strictly for marketing purposes.