GDT: Preds at Blues 7:00 FanDuel

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Sabres 4-1 Blues
Thompson

[juan good eye]

Good collection of nice players but not one elite player mentioned. Of course let’s hope they all surprise and become hall of famers but seriously tho…

There are a handful of elite players in the league. Learn to win without one.

Tell the NHL bc I have yet to see a team win a Cup without elite talent

Edit: there’s more than a handful (5-6) of elite players currently playing. Maybe not much more but I’m not referring to ultra rare generational talent (McDavid, Crosby)

what elite talent did we have in 2019?

Not in the typical sense bc they were both defensive minded two-way players but Petro and ROR. I think that’s pretty obvious.

Would also include Vladdy however by then I think he was physically compromised and never the same again.

Honorable mention: Binny. Won’t receive a vote for the Vezna or HOF but his big game ability is finally appreciate league/world wide.

But they weren't anyone anybody would consider elite. They were in that next tier which is what the vast majority of teams are going to have.

Regarding what I’m looking for I consider them elite talent, perhaps tweeners.

Not every team had a Petro that’s wild. And how long did it take Army to acquire a 1C of ROR’s caliber? Backes and Pauly Walnuts clearly weren’t it.

Defensive-minded, high IQ players don’t get the hype that offense stars do but that doesn’t mean they aren’t just as impactful.

On the current roster Kyrou got the buzz and the contract but I’ll take Neighbors every time over him bc I know what I value. While neither are elite tier the point stands.

I didn't say everyone would have a Petro, but Petro also wasn't an elite defender, he was that next tier. Not top 5 potentially not top 10 but easily top 15.

ROR was never considered a #1 center until he got here. He was the #2 center in Colorado and in Buffalo.

Defensive-minded, high IQ players don’t get the hype that offense stars do but that doesn’t mean they aren’t just as impactful.

Exactly which is what Army built the team around. You beat your own point by making the point myself and others were making.

On the current roster Kyrou got the buzz and the contract but I’ll take Neighbors every time over him bc I know what I value. While neither are elite tier the point stands.

I agree, but this is what you stated:

Tell the NHL bc I have yet to see a team win a Cup without elite talent

So which is it? You can't win a title without elite talent, or you can because you've completely contradicted yourself in just 3 posts.

Stop the [nonsense].

I already acknowledged Petro and ROR fit my definition of elite players which are required to win a Cup. I did not contradict myself so stop with the pretzel logic it’s pathetic.

So now it's not THE definition of elite, it's YOUR definition of elite. Ok then

Also you said:

They were in that next tier which is what the vast majority of teams are going to have.

The vast majority of teams did not have a 1D of Petro’s caliber. Thats a desperate cope for a well known defender of Army’s many post Cup mistakes.

In the playoffs that year? Just the teams we played against:

Winnipeg- had Dustin Byfuglien and a young Josh Morrisey (not in Petros class yet but Byfuglien was highly regarded but not on Petros level)

Dallas- Heiskanen and Klingberg (Klingberg not nearly as good a defender but way better offensively and Heiskanen as a rookie was already better than both offensively)

San Jose- Burns and Karlsson (Burns and Karlsson absolutely destroy Petro offensively but neither are defensive stalwarts by any means)

Boston-Chara and McAvoy (Even at 41 Chara was the better overall defenseman and McAvoy was well on his way)

boy for a league that doesn't have a lot of defenseman like Petro there sure were a lot of teams we played that defenseman equal to or close enough to Petro. I'm not downgrading Petro, he's one of the best defenseman the Blues have ever had, but he's in the second tier plain and simple. If you were building your team from scratch and could choose any dman from that year, what place do you think Petro goes? You aren't picking him over the following: Roman Josi, Victor Hedman, Drew Doughty, John Carlson, Kris Letang, Zdeno Chara, Ryan McDonagh. That's 8. There's nothing wrong with him not being considered elite, but he didn't fit your argument so you moved the goalposts. Which is fine but then you went for the cheap shots.



Saying Petro wasn’t an elite defender is beyond dumb as defending was his greatest strength. He was top 10 some years and would’ve received more Norris consideration but you know his defense was over shadowed by talking heads falling in love with offensive dmen. Meaning he was probably underrated league wide during his peak bc offense is overrated bc when everything is on the line Petro got the ice time and key assignments for 2 Cup winning teams. That is elite.

Yes your top 4 dmen are always going to be on the ice for the last few minutes of any game. Not sure what point your trying to prove there.

Petro is elite as I see it. Also you've been exposed...

Lie #1

So now it's not THE definition of elite, it's YOUR definition of elite. Ok then

Nice gotcha...except there isn't a formal definition of elite that can be readily applied to any given player but you knew that.

In the coming years there will be enough industry opinions, data, etc that'll eventually culminate into a general consensus on AP. Until then its not unreasonable to use ones own informed opinion.

Futhermore, I don't need you to tell me what I already know about the player. You dont have to think he is elite however I do. Specifically to the main argument: He is at minimum the level of top talent this team or any team needs if competing for the Cup is a serious endeavor.

Lies #2 & #3

there sure were a lot of teams we played that defenseman equal to or close enough to Petro.

You listed four teams. Thats not a lot of teams when there are 32 in the NHL. Elite talent is spread thin.
Note: Also it would make sense that the best teams would have the best collection of talented dmen. Too bad you didn't list all the non playoff teams. Oops.

Your qualifier of "close enough" is some real sly manipulation. The small differences in talent separating the best-from-the-rest lead to some of the biggest differences between the haves and have nots. See the Blues prior to 2019 w/o ROR.
Note: LMAO no one outside of Boston is taking grandpa Chara over Petro in 2019. INSANE.

Lie #4

I'm not downgrading Petro, he's one of the best defenseman the Blues have ever had, but he's in the second tier plain and simple.

Ahh but you did downgrade him when you claimed him as one of the best dmen in the Blues 50+ years of existence but also a player the "vast majority of teams are going to have". And we know the vast majority of teams dont have a player of his caliber. The Blues still havent been able to replace him 5 years later.
Fun fact: Petro is one of eight salary cap era dmen to average 24+ mins a game while playing 1000+ games.

Lie #5

If you were building your team from scratch and could choose any dman from that year, what place do you think Petro goes? You aren't picking him over the following: Roman Josi, Victor Hedman, Drew Doughty, John Carlson, Kris Letang, Zdeno Chara, Ryan McDonagh. That's 8.

1.Hedman
2.Chara
3.Doughty
4.Petro/Carlson/Josi tied but I'd give the nod to one of the Cup winners
7.Kris Letang
8.Ryan McDonagh

...and I'm probably overrating Chara here due to longevity which is where Petro currently gets a knock.

Lie #6

There's nothing wrong with him not being considered elite, but he didn't fit your argument so you moved the goalposts.

He is considered elite by me and others thus he fits my argument.

Frank Seravalli: You’re talking about the elite of the elite, so it’s not just “hey this guy got a ton of points or played a ton of games,” it’s how much of a dominant, two-way player he was. Yes he could put up points, but the way he defends has been elite. He’s been decorated for that, as you see the huge role he played for both his Stanley Cup championships with the St. Louis Blues and the Golden Knights.

Source: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/how-a ... ry-cap-era

Lie #7

...so you moved the goalposts

No I didnt. Not once. If I did prove your claim.

Have some cheese...

Which is fine but then you went for the cheap shots.

Your [nonsense] got called out. Instead of owning it the lies fell out of your mouth at an alarming rate. Embarrassing.

Army doesnt care about you. Covering for his mistakes wont make the Blues better. The team needs elite talent (or better) like the ones who got away.